Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet

gist.github.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 419 posts

Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet

#31

Post by PurpleFoxy »

jchw wrote: post #19

> Wayland solves no issues I have This is a common sentiment, but it is kind of funny. Because software engineers working for companies will know the struggle of trying to justify reducing technical debt, improving security practices, etc. but fail to see why these things are useful to them personally when the tables turn. Wayland indeed “breaks a lot of shit” but it’s not an accident or done due to incompetence. Als…

The author obviously hasn’t tried plugging a high dpi monitor in to a laptop if they don’t understand what’s wrong with X. Wayland solves so many of my problems and so far the only thing it breaks is screen capture in electron apps. And not even all electron apps. Discord has no problems.

Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet

#32

Post by mgbmtl »

GrayShade wrote: post #15

I've been running GNOME Wayland full-time for somr three or four years now. It works just fine, with some small exceptions. AMA.

Any screen recording recommendations?

Most I tried didn't work well (just didn't work, or broken keyboard shortcuts). I was a big fan of Kazam and Peek.

Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet

#33

Post by didymospl »

A few months ago I came back to Arch with Gnome and Wayland after several years with Mac. Sadly, default Gnome installation is way less functional now than it used to be back then. Screen sharing doesn't work in Skype and Slack because of Wayland. Apparently Zoom circumvents this by making a series of screenshots. Systray is missing and most of extensions that promise to restore it don't work. Some parts of UI(e.g. weather widget) relies on emojis that are not installed by default. I understand that sometimes you need to break stuff in order to move forward but I think this has gone too far already. (I ended up with X11/Cinnamon)

Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet

#34

Post by PurpleFoxy »

01acheru wrote: post #26

I think Wayland is a nice way forward from X, right now it's still not a replacement because of how central X is and how much stuff interfaces with it specifically or make assumptions about X features. (and so indeed, Wayland kind of breaks "everything") But I also think that they (Wayland) took a way too heavy napalm approach to the solution, almost like they totally ignored how painful such a transition would have…

You can quite easily be using wayland right now and not even notice it. It’s even the default on some distros now. Basically the only things holding it back are proprietary screen capture tools and nvidia.

Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet

#35

Post by DavidPiper »

There might be some good stuff here for Wayland devs, but otherwise seems to be mostly the usual dumpster fire (good for for roasting popcorn, though).

Stopped reading at this gem from the OP a long way down:

> For all the Wayland proponents here, why argue in places like this, wouldn't it be a better use of your time to send PRs to fix things like MaartenBaert/ssr#431 and vkohaupt/vokoscreenNG#51.

Time perhaps to invoke Teddy Roosevelt:

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."

Hats off to the Wayland devs. We're cheering you from the sidelines.

Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet

#36

Post by roenxi »

Wayland represents an interesting and possibly classic software situation - a beautiful standard has been developed. It blocks the user from using a screenshot application in the name of security.

Now when the standard gets rolled out kludge will be developed to allow users to still take screenshots. The beauty of the standard will be compromised or everyone will spend a bunch of time pretending the kludge isn't de-facto part of the standard.

Wayland's model of user security was a mistake if the goal was getting typical users to use it. It isn't secure, it just means screenshots will be done with a kludge. I think literally everyone I know who owns a computing device (I'm counting phones and tablets) wants to be able to take screen captures to show people things.

Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet

#38

Post by edflsafoiewq »

jchw wrote: post #19

> Wayland solves no issues I have This is a common sentiment, but it is kind of funny. Because software engineers working for companies will know the struggle of trying to justify reducing technical debt, improving security practices, etc. but fail to see why these things are useful to them personally when the tables turn. Wayland indeed “breaks a lot of shit” but it’s not an accident or done due to incompetence. Als…

> But more to the point, that the problem is that moving away from Xorg as a display server really needs to happen eventually

Yeah, to a "better Xorg". The problem is people don't believe Wayland is a "better Xorg".

Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet

#39

Post by that_guy_iain »

Honestly this sort of stuff is why using Linux as a desktop is actually super painful. 99% of the issues I suffer on my desktop I wouldn't suffer if I was using Windows or Mac. And all the reasons why I use linux are development reasons, container support is built in where on other os' it's virtualised, performance is faster on Linux than Macs, the CLI terminal application is better than on Windows, etc.

If the CLI terminals improved on Windows that they could compete with any of the Linux ones, I would probably switch to Windows since it's now got a ubuntu compatibility layer.

Re: Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet

#40

Post by kolme »

feelix wrote: post #12
edent wrote: post #3

This is completely the opposite of my experience. I've been running Wayland on Pop OS since last year and it has been great. X11 had horrible tearing on external rotated screens - Wayland fixed that. Colour temperature changing works. Screensharing works just fine on Chrome and Firefox. I use it every day. Screen recording works with Gnome's built in recorder. I'm sure there are a few esoteric bits which don't work -…

I've had the opposite experience too. I have an Nvidia linux card and Wayland on Fedora has always worked very well for me. In comparison Xorg on Ubuntu was a nightmare on the same machine

Do you use the proprietary drivers?
Post reply on HN