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Germany to be nuclear-free by 2022

reuters.com

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Re: Germany to be nuclear-free by 2022

#121

Post by lispm »

joe24pack wrote: post #92
lispm wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't glad. The french can't even meet their own demand in summer and winter. They are importing electricity from Germany.

Sounds like good news for the Czechs then, Temelin will be running at capacity most of the time. Maybe reactors 3 and 4 which should be under construction soon will earn the Czechs needed export income, and keep the lights on in Germany.

Good luck to the Czech, if this thing goes the Chernobyl/Fukushima/ThreeMilesIsland route.

Too bad for them that Germany follows a totally different strategy. But Czech companies will be happy working in the German supply chain for clean tech, too. Manufactured goods one can actually export.

Re: Germany to be nuclear-free by 2022

#122

Post by moe »

Typhon wrote: post #115
olaf wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, the Fukushima case is not yet closed. Tepco told us today (faz.net), that the three damaged reactors are stiil out of control, at least until end of this year. We will see, what will happen. Second: don't you ignore the risk of how many people _could_ die, in the case of a big disaster? That would have global conequences for quite some days (ironic). Even if nobody would die under normal conditions (nuclear an…

>« Even if nobody would die under normal conditions (nuclear and coal » Except the point of what I was saying and of the link I gave is precisely that under "normal conditions", people die due to coal, whereas it is not the case with nuclear plant. The reason is that all a nuclear plant releases in the air is water. > « the consequenences of a (more or less probable) big catastrophe (height of fall) are the main coun…

Until a better, safer replacement is found, we'll use cars, and nuclear plants.

I'd wager the change of mind will happen rather quickly after the first terrorist crashes a plane into an US nuclear facility.

Re: Germany to be nuclear-free by 2022

#123

Post by woodpanel »

lispm wrote: post #110
woodpanel wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who in Germany has those plans!? No one. Norway proposed them to Germany, to the Netherlands and Great Britain. None of these HVDC are currently even close to be projected. Of course, they'd be glad if Germans elect a Government that will force it's citizens to buy the luxury of clean norwegian energy.

Oh, yeah? Funky. The German regulation authorities then seem to have given permission to a project that nobody plans, nobody has heard of, does not exist? Please inform them of your findings. Hamburg Abendblatt, November 2010: >NETZAGENTUR GENEHMIGT STROMLEITUNG >Deutschland und Norwegen vernetzen sich >Das 600 Kilometer lange Unterseekabel soll Netztschwankungen der beiden Länder ausgeichen. Nur die EU-Kommisssion k…

wow. there seems to be a lot of development in this project since the last time I checked. you've got me!

Seems like they used some dirty tricks themselves even though it wasn't needed (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/NorGer#Gesetzliche_Rahmenbeding...). After all, what else are we to do if we cut off the nuclear plants? We have to import energy.

Re: Germany to be nuclear-free by 2022

#124

Post by vukk »

moe wrote: post #122
Typhon wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>« Even if nobody would die under normal conditions (nuclear and coal » Except the point of what I was saying and of the link I gave is precisely that under "normal conditions", people die due to coal, whereas it is not the case with nuclear plant. The reason is that all a nuclear plant releases in the air is water. > « the consequenences of a (more or less probable) big catastrophe (height of fall) are the main coun…

Until a better, safer replacement is found, we'll use cars, and nuclear plants. I'd wager the change of mind will happen rather quickly after the first terrorist crashes a plane into an US nuclear facility.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZjhxuhTmGk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7eI4vvlupY

Re: Germany to be nuclear-free by 2022

#125

Post by tomp »

olaf wrote: post #104
Typhon wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many people died at Fukushima ? 1 How many people die every year because of coal plants working perfectly normally ? 30 000 in the US alone. See http://squid314.livejournal.com/292620.html Nuclear waste is a bigger problem indeed, but using Fukushima as an argument against nuclear is both dishonest and stupid.

First, the Fukushima case is not yet closed. Tepco told us today (faz.net), that the three damaged reactors are stiil out of control, at least until end of this year. We will see, what will happen. Second: don't you ignore the risk of how many people _could_ die, in the case of a big disaster? That would have global conequences for quite some days (ironic). Even if nobody would die under normal conditions (nuclear an…

I can hardly imagine a bigger catastrophe than Fukushima... Now, the following facts are from my memory, so they might not be absolutely accurate, but I believe the points stand.

- It was hit by an earthquake with a magnitude 1 point higher than it was built for, and it was perfectly OK.

- Only the following tsunami damaged it, and only because it interrupted the power supply of the cooling pumps.

Let us not forget that the power plant was 20 or so years old. New plants would no doubt be much safer.

Re: Germany to be nuclear-free by 2022

#126

Post by woodpanel »

Argorak wrote: post #31
latch wrote: post #15

Germany is a leader in solar power. They installed more panels last year than the rest of the world combined. They generate more electricity from solar than Fukushima did. If they can further establish themselves as leaders and experts in new-energy, it'll make them even more disproportionally well positioned to most of Europe. However, it's a shame they see no future in nuclear. Seems like they are betting against s…

Germany is also one of the main suppliers for regenerating power technologies. So they do have an industry branch that benefits from that move.

Highly subsidized industry. Everytime the government tries to reduce the subsidies, our glorious greentech-companies are near bankcrupcy. [ http://boerse.ard.de/content.jsp?key=dokument_533948 = "German solar panel companies loose millions" ]

Re: Germany to be nuclear-free by 2022

#127

Post by tomp »

In march, I was flying over Germany on a sunny day. I saw hundreds of wind turbines polluting the landscape. They are ugly, inefficient, and apparently a huge danger for the birds. I really cannot see how that is environmentally friendly.

AFAIK, nuclear fuel cannot be produced, it can only be distilled. So, we're only using whatever radioactive materials exist on Earth anyhow. Were they mined from deep underground? Let's bury the waste deep underground, and there should be no problem.

I see three long-term solutions. 1) Use nuclear energy in a safe and responsible way. 2) wait until solar panels are developed enough and use them. However, both these solutions still have a big problem: batteries suck (they are heavy, inefficient, expensive and toxic, short-lived). Final solution: 3) grow genetically modified algae and use them to produce bio-diesel. The only problem would be the concentration of CO2 and other exhaust gasses in urban areas.

Re: Germany to be nuclear-free by 2022

#128

Post by ljf »

ugh wrote: post #112
lispm wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Low variable cost? What? The current experimental Asse II site already cost us BILLIONS of Euros. Plus it is fucked up and needs to been evacuated for a few additional billions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schacht_Asse_II

Those are fixed costs. The interesting question is what the marginal cost of adding another kg of nuclear waste is.

It's not just the nuclear fuel that needs storing you know: http://www.euronuclear.org/info/encyclopedia/w/waste-radioac...

Each plant produces a huge amount of waste each year it runs, all of various impact levels, but all of which has a cost to store or process. So yes, there may only be a small amount of extra direct fuel waste, but there is a lot more than that to consider.

Re: Germany to be nuclear-free by 2022

#129

Post by Typhon »

moe wrote: post #122
Typhon wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>« Even if nobody would die under normal conditions (nuclear and coal » Except the point of what I was saying and of the link I gave is precisely that under "normal conditions", people die due to coal, whereas it is not the case with nuclear plant. The reason is that all a nuclear plant releases in the air is water. > « the consequenences of a (more or less probable) big catastrophe (height of fall) are the main coun…

Until a better, safer replacement is found, we'll use cars, and nuclear plants. I'd wager the change of mind will happen rather quickly after the first terrorist crashes a plane into an US nuclear facility.

I'm pretty sure a big earthquake followed by a tsunami is more damaging than a plane crash.

Re: Germany to be nuclear-free by 2022

#130

Post by [deleted] »

xenonite wrote: post #100
woodpanel wrote: post #91

Sorry for this rant, but we germans are rather stupid by going down that road. we keep saying that the costs of renewable energies have gone down, but thats only due to massive subsidies. Thanks to fukushima the green party is like a political Steve Jobs on steroids right now: they can promote whatever dumb legislation and nobody questions it. nobody talks about the coal plants that we gonna need to supplement this.…

come on, another german trait is that everyone believes that everyone is to be fooled easily. People are not that stupid. Most just do not care.

[deleted]
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