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Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

drugpolicy.org

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Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#211

Post by giantg2 »

brewdad wrote: post #203
giantg2 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Speeding, being a crime, allowed him to do these things that parking tickets do not." That's not entirely true (excluding the pat down). The "search" you are talking about is simply plain sight/smell/etc. A cop writing a parking ticket can look through the window of your car and run the plates to see if it's stolen, lacking registration, etc. In either case they need probable cause to do an actual search of your veh…

Funny enough, DUI checkpoints are illegal in Oregon.

Good, they should be. It's too bad so many others allow it.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#212

Post by JulianMorrison »

umvi wrote: post #175
triceratops wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If heroin were instead legal... It would be so cheap your friend from high school could afford it with a standard burger flipping job. He'd have no need to resort to violent crimes to afford heroin.

How much are we talking? Is this pre or post taxes? Cigarettes are super cheap pre-taxes, but post-taxes they can be extremely expensive, especially in places like NYC.

Heroin is a simple chemical readily extractable from an agricultural crop. I wouldn't expect the base price to be higher than vitamin supplements. Of course how high that's pushed by sin taxes is a matter for legislatures.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#213

Post by tyingq »

JulianMorrison wrote: post #210
tyingq wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's what's meant by "a small amount" in Oregon law: Less than 1 gram of heroin. Less than 1 gram, or less than 5 pills, of MDMA. Less than 2 grams of methamphetamine. Less than 40 units of LSD. Less than 12 grams of psilocybin. Less than 40 units of methadone. Less than 40 pills of oxycodone. Less than 2 grams of cocaine. https://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/news/2021/01/31/what-... Also interesting from that ar…

I'm wondering how they measure those. Like, one gram of dried mushroom is a whole heck of a lot smaller than the pile of mushrooms you'd need to get one gram of extractable psilocybin.

"Twelve grams or more of a mixture or substance containing a detectable amount of psilocybin or psilocin."

From: https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/475.752

So, it sounds like 12 grams, regardless of strength. I guess don't get caught with one undried mushroom :)

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#214

Post by cbsks »

JulianMorrison wrote: post #210
tyingq wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's what's meant by "a small amount" in Oregon law: Less than 1 gram of heroin. Less than 1 gram, or less than 5 pills, of MDMA. Less than 2 grams of methamphetamine. Less than 40 units of LSD. Less than 12 grams of psilocybin. Less than 40 units of methadone. Less than 40 pills of oxycodone. Less than 2 grams of cocaine. https://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/news/2021/01/31/what-... Also interesting from that ar…

I'm wondering how they measure those. Like, one gram of dried mushroom is a whole heck of a lot smaller than the pile of mushrooms you'd need to get one gram of extractable psilocybin.

IANAL, but it looks to me that the text of the law doesn’t differentiate between dried mushrooms that contain psilocybin, and pure psilocybin of the same weight.

> (B) Twelve grams or more of a mixture or substance containing a detectable amount of psilocybin or psilocin.

http://oregonvotes.org/irr/2020/044text.pdf

I wouldn’t bet on that actually holding up in court. 12g of pure psilocybin is about 600 doses, which a judge may determine is illegal based on the intent of the law.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#215

Post by ttul »

umvi wrote: post #170
nitrogen wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

illegality also suppresses uptake by new users. Clearly that's not true, as evidenced by the enormous illegal drug trade. Highly regulated availability of safer substitutes for the worst drugs might reduce uptake of those worse drugs. Balling all "drugs" into one category and declaring them legal for traffic and sale is a horrible idea. That's not what the parent comment said. They specifically said based on health.

> Clearly that's not true, as evidenced by the enormous illegal drug trade. Highly regulated availability of safer substitutes for the worst drugs might reduce uptake of those worse drugs. Hold on, that logic isn't sound. You are saying because the illegal drug trade is enormous, therefore the illegal status of drugs has no suppressive effect on new user uptake? Why can't both statements be true? "The illegal trade i…

Legalization probably increases the user base somewhat. But does it increase negative outcomes? The evidence is already in: the legalization of alcohol after the 1930s definitely improved outcomes.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#216

Post by lamontcg »

tyingq wrote: post #205
GuB-42 wrote: post #46

Just to make things clear, decriminalization is not legalization. Drugs are still illegal, and users risk a $100 fine, especially if they are uncooperative. The difference is that it is now a civil violation instead of a crime, so no record, no jail time, kind of like a parking ticket. Drug trafficking is still a crime.

Here's what's meant by "a small amount" in Oregon law: Less than 1 gram of heroin. Less than 1 gram, or less than 5 pills, of MDMA. Less than 2 grams of methamphetamine. Less than 40 units of LSD. Less than 12 grams of psilocybin. Less than 40 units of methadone. Less than 40 pills of oxycodone. Less than 2 grams of cocaine. https://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/news/2021/01/31/what-... Also interesting from that ar…

Why are you allowed to have up to 40 tabs of LSD but no more than 5 pills of MDMA?

In general, possession-vs-dealing is such a weird line to cut based on quantity of the drug.

The fact that 10 pills of MDMA in someone's possession likely means that it won't just be one person consuming all of those doesn't necessarily turn that person into a professional dealer. Not any more than a pack of cigarettes turns someone into a tobacco company if someone bums a smoke off of you.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#217

Post by trianglem »

ogre_codes wrote: post #66
GuB-42 wrote: post #46

Just to make things clear, decriminalization is not legalization. Drugs are still illegal, and users risk a $100 fine, especially if they are uncooperative. The difference is that it is now a civil violation instead of a crime, so no record, no jail time, kind of like a parking ticket. Drug trafficking is still a crime.

> Drug trafficking is still a crime. Which is how this should be for many drugs. Though I would like a clean source for the occasional dose of LSD. Just... you know once a month or so.

I agree, but once a month? Hoo buddy, more like once a year for me. It is amazing but just completely kicks me out of my routine.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#218

Post by tyingq »

lamontcg wrote: post #216
tyingq wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's what's meant by "a small amount" in Oregon law: Less than 1 gram of heroin. Less than 1 gram, or less than 5 pills, of MDMA. Less than 2 grams of methamphetamine. Less than 40 units of LSD. Less than 12 grams of psilocybin. Less than 40 units of methadone. Less than 40 pills of oxycodone. Less than 2 grams of cocaine. https://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/news/2021/01/31/what-... Also interesting from that ar…

Why are you allowed to have up to 40 tabs of LSD but no more than 5 pills of MDMA? In general, possession-vs-dealing is such a weird line to cut based on quantity of the drug. The fact that 10 pills of MDMA in someone's possession likely means that it won't just be one person consuming all of those doesn't necessarily turn that person into a professional dealer. Not any more than a pack of cigarettes turns someone in…

I predict pre-scored double-dose pills become popular.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#219

Post by trianglem »

travbrack wrote: post #180
notJim wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to favor full legalization, but now I think it's a bad idea. If you can simply go to a store to buy heroin (like you can with weed in many places now), I think we will inevitably have more heroin addicts. People will get addicting just trying it out, and get addicted because they are self-medicating. There are middle-grounds between full legalization and full prohibition. It seems obvious that prohibition has…

Don't you think most people who would be interested in buying heroin in the store can already get it?

Not verified, 100% pure pharmaceutical grade heroin.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#220

Post by trianglem »

anm89 wrote: post #198
throwaway2121bx wrote: post #68

I'm a proponent for legalizing drugs. But I believe there will be negative long-term consequences from drug use becoming normalized and so easy to obtain. People who wouldn't otherwise use drugs could be forgiven (after reading about legalization in the binary and positive way it is often reported, or from walking around a city with an upmarket weed shop every few blocks) for believing it can't be that bad for you an…

Drug use is already normalized and drugs are already easy to obtain.

Not that easy. I can get pot, cocaine and possibly MDMA. But heroin and LSD would be hard for me to find with my friend circle.
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