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Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

drugpolicy.org

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Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#181

Post by 01100011 »

anewaccount2021 wrote: post #58

The not-homeless, not-drug-addict rest-of-society is already well on its way with its response...gated communities. No homeless, no open drug use...all protected by private property laws and private security. Get ready for more of them. It doesn't matter what laws you will pass, you don't get past the front gate unless your card scans. In the end, the only people who will be forced to look at open drug use and homele…

Looks like you're getting downvoted for raising a valid point. Further evidence of the reddit crowd infecting HN with their downvotes of anything that raises an uncomfortable debate.

I'm proud of Oregon for trying this, but I worry that having one state go it alone will result in problems resulting from unequal strain on Oregon's social safety nets. Many drug users are productive members of society, but many are not. Hopefully this does not cause a homeless migration to Oregon.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#182

Post by triceratops »

umvi wrote: post #175
triceratops wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If heroin were instead legal... It would be so cheap your friend from high school could afford it with a standard burger flipping job. He'd have no need to resort to violent crimes to afford heroin.

How much are we talking? Is this pre or post taxes? Cigarettes are super cheap pre-taxes, but post-taxes they can be extremely expensive, especially in places like NYC.

Are there a lot of armed robberies committed by smokers in NYC because they can't afford cigarettes?

They might buy from bootleggers if they can't afford the fully-taxed cigs. That's a crime too, obviously, but somewhat less serious than armed robbery.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#183

Post by nexthash »

pacifist wrote: post #134
ericholscher wrote: post #52

Of interest, this is mostly a non-story in Oregon after it has passed. Our largest newspaper isn't even running a story on it: https://www.oregonlive.com/ Life continues as normal, just with fewer people in prison. As it should be.

The real story is the fact that mainstream media is ignoring it. The silence is deafening and trumpets their allegiance to big pharma and the criminal injustice complex. Edit: I live in Oregon and voted for this. So yay, we're moving in the right direction.

Why would you think the mainstream media isn't covering it? A cursory search on Google for 'oregon drug legalization' revealed these results:

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/oregon-1st-state-d...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/11/04/election-dr...

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2020-12-10/...

I would consider these outlets more or less mainstream. I think the 'real story' in this case is not a conspiracy of big pharma and the prison-industrial complex, but the slow change of attitudes and policy in the US. Occam's razor.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#184

Post by pacifist »

lipstone wrote: post #155
pacifist wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real story is the fact that mainstream media is ignoring it. The silence is deafening and trumpets their allegiance to big pharma and the criminal injustice complex. Edit: I live in Oregon and voted for this. So yay, we're moving in the right direction.

Why would pharma not want legalization? At worst, it doesn't affect them. At best, it's another revenue stream.

I typed this into duckduckgo: "big pharma lobbies against drug decriminalization"

and got this: https://www.leafly.com/news/politics/the-top-5-industries-lo...

I wouldn't care to venture a guess as to their thinking but the intent is clear: they don't want drug decriminalization.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#185

Post by meowfly »

lanevorockz wrote: post #24
random_savv wrote: post #18

Good. This has worked well in other countries, particularly Portugal: https://transformdrugs.org/drug-decriminalisation-in-portuga...

Slightly hard to believe in data these days ... I went to uni in portugal and it was rare to find a student that didn't use weed. I guess this is why it was so easy to legalise it. Then the data says 10% ... it's laughable.

I had a stopover in Amsterdam and ended up sharing drinks with a Norwegian who was there to party with friends after graduating from a prestigious school in Bergen.

I was actually taken aback at how negative his views on weed were. He made it sound like successful people in Norway won't touch the stuff. In contrast, I can't think of anyone in in my circle who would have shared his views.

It was a reminder of how we all live in our own bubbles.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#186

Post by kansface »

leakybit wrote: post #139
ttul wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Bath salts" are popular because far better alternatives are illegal... If pure meth, cocaine, heroin, MDMA, and other "hard" drugs were made available in a regulated format, many destructive and dangerous alternatives would no longer have a market.

is meth, heroin, and cocaine supposed to be safe for you?

Meth is actually available by prescription in the US for ADHD and obesity [1] (at a much lower dosage than what addicts take)! Opiates obviously are as well.

1. https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/know-your-amphetamines

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#187

Post by daenz »

cammikebrown wrote: post #8
imperio59 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Experimenting with people's lives is not a responsible way to experiment. No one is denying these drugs are harmful, yet Oregon is basically saying "go ahead, it's fine, use these drugs". Seeing what is happening with the Marijuana lobbies coming in and putting in billions in lobbying should scare everybody. We have big tobacco to look at for where this leads. The next obvious step is to legalize all drugs, and let t…

The way I think of it is, people will do drugs whether or not they’re legal. The current system is to throw drug users in jail, which has been proven to cost a lot of money and not do anything to rehabilitate the drug user. They need treatment, not jail time. This bill has greatly expanded access to treatment programs, which will help much more than incarceration ever could.

Your first sentence isn't necessarily true. Speaking from 1st and 2nd hand experience, there are people who would have experimented with harder drugs if they were easy to obtain.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#188

Post by umvi »

triceratops wrote: post #182
umvi wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much are we talking? Is this pre or post taxes? Cigarettes are super cheap pre-taxes, but post-taxes they can be extremely expensive, especially in places like NYC.

Are there a lot of armed robberies committed by smokers in NYC because they can't afford cigarettes? They might buy from bootleggers if they can't afford the fully-taxed cigs. That's a crime too, obviously, but somewhat less serious than armed robbery.

> Are there a lot of armed robberies committed by smokers in NYC because they can't afford cigarettes?

I can't really quantify "a lot" or whether the thieves were smokers that couldn't afford them, but it's clearly happening. Here are some armed robberies from 2020 in NYC that involved stealing cigarettes at gunpoint: [0][1][2]

> They might buy from bootleggers if they can't afford the fully-taxed cigs

I would guess this is the preferable option to robbing stores, but if you literally have no money, even bootleg cigarettes are off the table.

[0] https://abc7ny.com/armed-suspect-pulls-out-gun-steals-cigare...

[1] https://nypost.com/2020/02/18/robber-armed-with-rifle-hits-n...

[2] https://patch.com/new-york/parkslope/man-robs-nyc-7-elevens-...

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#189

Post by pacifist »

nexthash wrote: post #183
pacifist wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real story is the fact that mainstream media is ignoring it. The silence is deafening and trumpets their allegiance to big pharma and the criminal injustice complex. Edit: I live in Oregon and voted for this. So yay, we're moving in the right direction.

Why would you think the mainstream media isn't covering it? A cursory search on Google for 'oregon drug legalization' revealed these results: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/oregon-1st-state-d... https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/11/04/election-dr... https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2020-12-10/... I would consider these outlets more or less mainstream. I think the 'real story' in th…

"but the slow change of attitudes and policy in the US" as shepherded by the mainstream media. Yes, we disagree as to the complicity of the media and criminal justice system. I believe that they sold their souls for a paycheck a long time ago. We all have our price but I hope I would get a more than that in the bargain.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#190

Post by ogre_codes »

valuearb wrote: post #165
ogre_codes wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not going to argue this because I agree in many (most?) cases. But I do think there is value in taking a measured approach to the problem as opposed to opening the flood gates.

The measured approach is a problem too. You see it in marijuana legalization, where some state’s are so restrictive about licensing sakes outlets that legal weed costs more than illegal. How can that kill off a dangerous black market? Someone who is going to try heroin is going to try heroin. They can live a mostly long, healthy, productive life if they get clean drugs and needles. Where are they going to get that fr…

> The measured approach is a problem too. You see it in marijuana legalization, where some state’s are so restrictive about licensing sakes outlets that legal weed costs more than illegal.

I don't think this is as big a problem as people make it out to be.

In NYC, there is a black market for smuggled cigarettes because of the large taxes on them. Most people buy them from legit places regardless because it's much more convenient.

There are high alcohol taxes in Oregon and Washington, yet very little modern bootlegging. People prefer to buy legal alcohol in spite of the fact that moonshine is cheaper.

The risks of dealing with illegally manufactured substances are worse than the increased cost of buying from legitimate sources.

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