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Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

drugpolicy.org

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Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#131

Post by throwawayboise »

chapium wrote: post #43
daenz wrote: post #26

As a libertarian leaning person, I agree with this. However, I still think it will have a lot of negative consequences that people will be eager to sweep under the rug. Even if the net effect is positive, we still need to be honest about any negative results that we may see from this.

I think the key takeaway from other countries that have implemented this is to treat addiction clinically, not criminally. This makes a lot of sense really, given the effects on the body. Ethical sourcing of drugs is another issue, and should be looked at through a legal lens.

Yes, to me this experiment hinges on following through on the treatment side. I hope to see some ongoing reporting on whether the funding that used to be spent on police enforcement, prosecution, and punishment of drug possession is actually diverted to treatment. If counties instead try to "save taxpayer money" on this I think it will end badly.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#132

Post by cjaybo »

Noos wrote: post #88
anewaccount2021 wrote: post #58

The not-homeless, not-drug-addict rest-of-society is already well on its way with its response...gated communities. No homeless, no open drug use...all protected by private property laws and private security. Get ready for more of them. It doesn't matter what laws you will pass, you don't get past the front gate unless your card scans. In the end, the only people who will be forced to look at open drug use and homele…

To be honest, can you blame them? The petty crimes fueled by drug use don't go away if you decriminalize it. We keep throwing money at homelessness but it doesn't seem to work at all because a lot of the problem homeless really need to be involuntarily committed for long term treatment of mental illness or addiction. Not many people want to go down that route, because we still don't really trust or are comfortable wi…

> when policies make it easier for people to rob others.

Which policies are those?

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#133

Post by Noos »

Karsteski wrote: post #71
imperio59 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Experimenting with people's lives is not a responsible way to experiment. No one is denying these drugs are harmful, yet Oregon is basically saying "go ahead, it's fine, use these drugs". Seeing what is happening with the Marijuana lobbies coming in and putting in billions in lobbying should scare everybody. We have big tobacco to look at for where this leads. The next obvious step is to legalize all drugs, and let t…

Who are you to legislate what people can and cannot do with their bodies? Regardless of the harms, I am glad we are moving towards personal autonomy, and not the nanny state that every country's people has had to endure for over a century. The destruction of so many lives... For absolutely zero gain. The initial facial motivations for these laws in the first place is all you need to figure out that they should never…

the problem is we aren't going all the way, and removing societal support from those who use their personal autonomy for that kind of self abuse. The thing is, you want the nanny state to take care of drug users instead of jailing them; this is because drug use still destroys lives anyways.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#134

Post by pacifist »

ericholscher wrote: post #52

Of interest, this is mostly a non-story in Oregon after it has passed. Our largest newspaper isn't even running a story on it: https://www.oregonlive.com/ Life continues as normal, just with fewer people in prison. As it should be.

The real story is the fact that mainstream media is ignoring it. The silence is deafening and trumpets their allegiance to big pharma and the criminal injustice complex.

Edit: I live in Oregon and voted for this. So yay, we're moving in the right direction.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#135

Post by jaywalk »

giantg2 wrote: post #126
GuB-42 wrote: post #46

Just to make things clear, decriminalization is not legalization. Drugs are still illegal, and users risk a $100 fine, especially if they are uncooperative. The difference is that it is now a civil violation instead of a crime, so no record, no jail time, kind of like a parking ticket. Drug trafficking is still a crime.

I'm curious where the definition of a class E violation can be found. I didn't find anything through a search. It seems odd to me that the government can charge a fine without a crime being committed. In my mind, this would remove the rights and protections that someone would have under a criminal charge.

What are you talking about? It's a civil violation, like a speeding ticket or almost every other ticket that cops write that don't involve you being hauled off to jail.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#136

Post by ogre_codes »

valuearb wrote: post #111
ogre_codes wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Drug trafficking is still a crime. Which is how this should be for many drugs. Though I would like a clean source for the occasional dose of LSD. Just... you know once a month or so.

Drug “trafficking” should absolutely be legal. While Decriminalization is laudatory and beneficial, it solves far fewer problems than outright legalization. With decriminalization: 1) drug users will still not know what they are actually consuming. They can very easily invest drugs heavily mixed with other drugs, or dangerous chemicals. This will lead to far higher levels of accidental overdoses and is a path to more…

I'm not going to argue this because I agree in many (most?) cases.

But I do think there is value in taking a measured approach to the problem as opposed to opening the flood gates.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#137

Post by nitrogen »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #117
QuercusMax wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people are drinking 6-packs, it's much more likely to be Coors Light (4.2%) than something like an Arrogant Bastard. According to 5 seconds of googling, the typical weight of an American man in 2016 was 197lbs. You might well lose your wager.

My estimate was based on half of the population being women, and the fact that fat doesn’t assist with processing alcohol as much as muscle, and most American men are not exactly muscular. https://mcwell.nd.edu/your-well-being/physical-well-being/al...

The most muscular dude I ever knew was so solely because he had so much weight to carry. Unless you are wheelchair-bound, fat necessitates at least some additional leg and core muscle.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#138

Post by throwawayboise »

cammikebrown wrote: post #8
imperio59 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Experimenting with people's lives is not a responsible way to experiment. No one is denying these drugs are harmful, yet Oregon is basically saying "go ahead, it's fine, use these drugs". Seeing what is happening with the Marijuana lobbies coming in and putting in billions in lobbying should scare everybody. We have big tobacco to look at for where this leads. The next obvious step is to legalize all drugs, and let t…

The way I think of it is, people will do drugs whether or not they’re legal. The current system is to throw drug users in jail, which has been proven to cost a lot of money and not do anything to rehabilitate the drug user. They need treatment, not jail time. This bill has greatly expanded access to treatment programs, which will help much more than incarceration ever could.

Well, I mean it's pretty hard to stay using if you're in jail. Yes some contraband does leak in but it's far less available than on the street. So a stretch in jail will very likely have you sober whether you like it or not. It's all the other negative attributes and consequences of prison that are the problem.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#139

Post by leakybit »

ttul wrote: post #97
cylon13 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should we force drug trafficking in to the underground, creating a black market and all the murder that comes with enforcing contracts within it, when people are just going to buy and consume drugs anyway? Because drugs are bad for you? The trade-off doesn't seem worth it.

"Bath salts" are popular because far better alternatives are illegal... If pure meth, cocaine, heroin, MDMA, and other "hard" drugs were made available in a regulated format, many destructive and dangerous alternatives would no longer have a market.

is meth, heroin, and cocaine supposed to be safe for you?

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#140

Post by giantg2 »

driverdan wrote: post #73
gautamcgoel wrote: post #5

I really hope this leads to more research on the effect of psychedelics on treatment-resistant depression. People with depression suffer unimaginable anguish every day - we owe it to them to give them the best treatment options possible.

This isn't legalization and has no impact on federal laws. It won't help with direct research.

The federal-state dynamic is certainly interesting. The federal government doesn't have the resources to enforce all the laws they have on the books and rely on states to enact similar laws to enforce most of them. I wonder if they will ever increase enforcement or if this state-level defiance/contradictions will continue to grow and spread to other states. I think there has been some talk of similar movements for gun rights.
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