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Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

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Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#961

Post by girvo »

alfiedotwtf wrote: post #958
girvo wrote: post #931

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it’s old now, the Nokia N9 proved to me a long time ago that the Linux phone idea has true merit. Harmattan was a brilliant UI!

I think you mean the N900, which I'd still be on if it did all the bands in my area. You're right though... probably the best Linux phone so far in terms of UI (I think the Ubuntu phone was too complex)

No, I mean the N9 :)

https://wiki.debian.org/Mobile/Nokia_N9

I loved the N900 to, of course, but as a phone the N9 running MeeGo v1.2 Harmattan was superior day to day (for me anyway).

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#962

Post by nobody9999 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #944
nobody9999 wrote: post #910

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd add that there's a wealth of information (and not just about rooting/unlocking bootloaders) about Android tools, software, development and phone capabilities here: https://www.xda-developers.com/

I am... aware. For a general search on this topic I tend to get results about oneplus, for example, that say that relocking breaks it. And samsung just won't unlock US models. And xiaomi factory resets the phone when relocking. Searching for relock root android gives very unhelpful results in general. I did learn there's one specific model of motorola where the "lock" just doesn't work, and that's amusing but not ver…

My phone? An HTC OneMax (t6vzw).

I unlocked my bootloader (cf. https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/guide-s-off-root-your-htc...), installed TWRP[0] and then re-locked my bootloader.

I then variously installed different custom roms (LineageOS, NuSense, ResurrectionRemix) and in between re-flashed the stock rom.

I used SuperSU and AddonSU to root the installed images. Magisk is also a popular rooting tool (AIUI, the MagiskHide component blocks Google Play from identifying the device as rooted as well).

Once I installed TWRP, I was able to do all of those things with a locked bootloader and had zero problems running any Android application.

I'd note that LineageOS[1] supports hundreds of different phones.

Any reasonably tech savvy person can do this fairly easily and a non-tech savvy person can do so with a modicum of effort.

If you're actually interested, I'll happily sell you my services to do this on your phone.

And I promise you that I will charge you an outrageously large amount for those services. It's definitely not worth it, but I'd be happy to take your money.

[0] https://twrp.me/

[1] https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#963

Post by einpoklum »

hedora wrote: post #959
einpoklum wrote: post #912

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> extremely abusive content This phrasing suggests it was probably not even illegal to publish. What if this content had been something that Google finds politically or commercially disfavorable to its interests, rather than something we would all think is intolerable? What if it _is_ like that?

To the extent Google can lock you up for life for being inconvenient for their business model, I suppose it could have been innocuous content. Oh, wait. We’re still a decade away from that particular dystopia, so I’ll guess kiddie porn or actual planning of terrorist attacks.

> so I’ll guess kiddie porn or actual planning of terrorist attacks.

It seems you guess wrong. The Element guy did not mention any illegality, which is what makes me suspicious.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#964

Post by jhabdas »

mxuribe wrote: post #936
Arathorn wrote: post #857

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UPDATE: I just got a call from a VP at Google who apologised for the bad communication around this and explained the situation, which related to some extremely abusive content which was accessible on the default matrix.org homeserver. We don't want to go into specifics, but suffice it to say that it's not related to WallStreet Bets or anything like that, but instead is the sort of thing that causes you to get locked…

Challenges - like this google fiasco - really test the merit of a person and org...and you @Arathorn and the rest of the Element team as well as the Matrix org/Foundation team have shown to be really great stewards and leaders for Matrix, as well as great actors for open source and internet-at-large software. Kudos to you and the teams for the great job at managing this challenge (that never should have been created…

> Kudos to you and the teams for the great job at managing this challenge (that never should have been created by Google in the first place)!!

You're suggesting the challenge was created by Google and that so and so managed to navigate it successfully by obeying Google.

But we don't even know what the issue was. And if the issue isn't available to the general public through transparency or something like an FOIA request what is really being celebrated is the power of a corporation to control free speech over a protocol intended to wrest control of free speech back into the hands of people in the first place.

Limiting access to information such that it cannot be independently verified is far more sinister and nefarious — not to mention consitutionally unsound — than the threat of the bad actor sharing the info in the first place.

In the wake of the temporary Parler shutdown all of us need to be paying close attention to how we receive information. These things cannot be left up to anecdotal stories which delve into little to no detail.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#965

Post by jhabdas »

Arathorn wrote: post #857
Arathorn wrote: post #3

So we got notified by the developer console at 21:45 UTC that the app had been suspended, but still haven’t had an email to explain why - it’s 02:24 now. Our assumption that this is due to someone reporting abusive content in Matrix to Google, and Element catching the blame — although this is currently speculation. To be clear: Element is a Matrix client just as Chrome is a Web browser, and just as it’s possible to v…

UPDATE: I just got a call from a VP at Google who apologised for the bad communication around this and explained the situation, which related to some extremely abusive content which was accessible on the default matrix.org homeserver. We don't want to go into specifics, but suffice it to say that it's not related to WallStreet Bets or anything like that, but instead is the sort of thing that causes you to get locked…

> We don't want to go into specifics

This kind of language is very wishy-washy and leaves everything to the imagination. 9/10 times the issue is terrorism or CP. So which of the two was it? And why aren't you comfortable enough to share that reason with your prospective users?

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#966

Post by varispeed »

codeisawesome wrote: post #932
varispeed wrote: post #918

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This principle should be applied to all sectors. Basically capitalism is still young and we didn't have situations in the past were small companies could consolidate indefinitely so that they can at some point get so big they have more money than some countries. I think there should be a cap that beyond certain point company will have to be divided, so we never get companies too big to fail and being able to afford b…

I’m somewhat certain that the east India company, the VOC etc., had wealth surpassing many countries by the time their consolidation activities reached their peak, though. This isn’t a new phenomenon I don’t think.

This was more like a state sanctioned oligarchy, whereas this loophole kind of gives anyone a chance to start EIC if they find a niche, exploit and then expand. Beyond certain point you buy laws so that nobody else can copy your steps. Rinse and repeat. This should be stopped.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#967

Post by waheoo »

Spivak wrote: post #729
itronitron wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe someone can let Google know that Element is not a publisher.

No but Matrix.org will likely be considered one. I mean the Twitter app isn’t a publisher but Twitter sure it. If Matrix only facilitated private communications then they could probably tell Google to piss off but they became a social network when they included public chatrooms.

So when's twitter getting its take down?

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#968

Post by Dylan16807 »

nobody9999 wrote: post #962
Dylan16807 wrote: post #944

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am... aware. For a general search on this topic I tend to get results about oneplus, for example, that say that relocking breaks it. And samsung just won't unlock US models. And xiaomi factory resets the phone when relocking. Searching for relock root android gives very unhelpful results in general. I did learn there's one specific model of motorola where the "lock" just doesn't work, and that's amusing but not ver…

My phone? An HTC OneMax (t6vzw). I unlocked my bootloader (cf. https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/guide-s-off-root-your-htc... ), installed TWRP[0] and then re-locked my bootloader. I then variously installed different custom roms (LineageOS, NuSense, ResurrectionRemix) and in between re-flashed the stock rom. I used SuperSU and AddonSU to root the installed images. Magisk is also a popular rooting tool (AIUI, the Ma…

HTC, interesting. Okay, that's the first brand I've looked into where relocking actually seems viable!

This is not a "how do I root???" situation. You have a much better brand than most people.

And I've used magisk fine, but hardware attestation is rolling out and if anything starts to require that then anyone that can't relock their phone can't fake it. Edit: And it might fail anyway according to https://twitter.com/topjohnwu/status/1278849731305672705?s=1...

Also good luck doing anything with my current phone. After long enough being unable to find a reasonable phone that had 600MHz support, an SD card, and rootability, I gave up and got a samsung. The bootloader won't allow anything.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#969

Post by nobody9999 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #968
nobody9999 wrote: post #962

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My phone? An HTC OneMax (t6vzw). I unlocked my bootloader (cf. https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/guide-s-off-root-your-htc... ), installed TWRP[0] and then re-locked my bootloader. I then variously installed different custom roms (LineageOS, NuSense, ResurrectionRemix) and in between re-flashed the stock rom. I used SuperSU and AddonSU to root the installed images. Magisk is also a popular rooting tool (AIUI, the Ma…

HTC, interesting. Okay, that's the first brand I've looked into where relocking actually seems viable! This is not a "how do I root???" situation. You have a much better brand than most people. And I've used magisk fine, but hardware attestation is rolling out and if anything starts to require that then anyone that can't relock their phone can't fake it. Edit: And it might fail anyway according to https://twitter.com…

>Also good luck doing anything with my current phone. After long enough being unable to find a reasonable phone that had 600MHz support, an SD card, and rootability, I gave up and got a samsung. The bootloader won't allow anything.

I did a bunch of research as well, and recently bought a Motorola Edge[0] (not Edge+) which has pretty much everything you mentioned, including support for up to a 1TB SD card.

I haven't rooted it yet, but I should have no problem doing so if/when I decide to do so (when I require a feature I don't have and/or Motorola stops upgrading the OS).

Samsung says[1] there shouldn't be a problem with locking/unlocking the bootloader.

And other sites[2] confirm this for newer Samsung phones.

What's more, there's additional development work[3] on bypassing Safety Net as well.

Even more, moving away from Play Services and installing MicroG[4] addresses the issue as well.

I don't even own a Samsung phone and I found all this out in less than five minutes. I can understand if you don't want to put in the time and effort, but just saying it doesn't work (N.B., you didn't mention the specific Samsung model you have which may complicate things, but none of the info I've seen -- including Samsung's docs -- say that the bootloader can't be unlocked/relocked) when there's ample evidence that most (if not all) Samsung devices can be unlocked/rooted/relocked and still pass safety net checks.

Besides, even if you don't root the device, installing a custom recovery partition will allow nandroid backups[5], which are clearly superior to other backup mechanisms.

Regardless, I hope you get/have the features and performance you desire, and are able to keep using your device long after Samsung stops supporting it (my HTC stopped getting updates with KitKat/4.4 in 2015, but I've continued to update it and currently run LineageOS 17.1/AndroidQ on it), as there's no reason to buy a new phone as long as you can run recent software versions.

In fact, the only reason I purchased a new device was for VoLTE[6] support, which the HTC OneMax doesn't have.

I wish you many years of quality use from your device.

[0] https://www.motorola.com/us/smartphones-motorola-edge/p

[1] https://r2.community.samsung.com/t5/Others/Unlocking-The-Boo...

[2] https://www.getdroidtips.com/how-to-unlock-bootloader-on-sam...

[3] https://www.xda-developers.com/bypass-safetynet-hardware-att...

[4] https://microg.org/

[5] https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/28296/how-to-ful...

[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_over_LTE

Edit: Fixed link reference numbers and typos.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#970

Post by Dylan16807 »

nobody9999 wrote: post #969
Dylan16807 wrote: post #968

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HTC, interesting. Okay, that's the first brand I've looked into where relocking actually seems viable! This is not a "how do I root???" situation. You have a much better brand than most people. And I've used magisk fine, but hardware attestation is rolling out and if anything starts to require that then anyone that can't relock their phone can't fake it. Edit: And it might fail anyway according to https://twitter.com…

>Also good luck doing anything with my current phone. After long enough being unable to find a reasonable phone that had 600MHz support, an SD card, and rootability, I gave up and got a samsung. The bootloader won't allow anything. I did a bunch of research as well, and recently bought a Motorola Edge[0] (not Edge+) which has pretty much everything you mentioned, including support for up to a 1TB SD card. I haven't r…

> Motorola Edge

I looked at all the screen defect reports and high price and decided not to risk it.

> Samsung says[1] there shouldn't be a problem with locking/unlocking the bootloader.

> And other sites[2] confirm this for newer Samsung phones.

More specifically, Samsung phones for the US with qualcomm chips cannot be unlocked. The nice little menu option in that article is just not there.

> What's more, there's additional development work[3] on bypassing Safety Net as well.

If they decide to remove the fallback, that method dies.

> I don't even own a Samsung phone and I found all this out in less than five minutes.

The info on samsung models is a mess because they put out almost identical phones with different chipsets and subtly different capabilities.

All the non-US models, almost all with exynos chips, can be unlocked but that does me no good.

> you didn't mention the specific Samsung model you have which may complicate things

S20 FE 5G SM-G781U1 if you really want to know.

> Besides, even if you don't root the device, installing a custom recovery partition will allow nandroid backups[5], which are clearly superior to other backup mechanisms.

I know, and I wish I could do that.

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