Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

491–500 of 988 posts

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#491

Post by brettwilcox »

walrus01 wrote: post #486
brettwilcox wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm testing Element and Matrix at American Airlines. There are big players with clout that take issue to instability such as this. How can I rely on my company using Element when it gets pulled? Not cool Google... To the element team, reach out to me if you can't get the support you are looking for.

Google may be able to control the Element app on the play store, but at least for the server side there's no way to do that with synapse (the official matrix protocol server side implementation), which is fully open source and distributed directly from the developers.

They are also working on a Go version called Dendrite - https://github.com/matrix-org/dendrite

The Matrix team is doing a LOT of cool stuff. :)

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#492

Post by yorwba »

GlitchMr wrote: post #439

I believe that removal of Element from Google Play Store is a violation of EU regulation 2019/1150. Element has legal entities in Britain (which is affected by Brexit but has similar law) and France. Google is LEGALLY required to provide a justification for removal 30 days before application removal. Anyway, you may try contacting Google using EU regulation 2019/1150 violation procedure, see https://support.google.co…

> Google is LEGALLY required to provide a justification for removal 30 days before application removal.

You mean this?

2. Where a provider of online intermediation services decides to terminate the provision of the whole of its online intermediation services to a given business user, it shall provide the business user concerned, at least 30 days prior to the termination taking effect, with a statement of reasons for that decision on a durable medium.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL...

Firstly, I'm not sure whether they really terminated "the provision of the whole of its online intermediation services" or just suspended the one app store listing.

Secondly, there are exceptions:

4. The notice period in paragraph 2 shall not apply where a provider of online intermediation services:

(a) is subject to a legal or regulatory obligation which requires it to terminate the provision of the whole of its online intermediation services to a given business user in a manner which does not allow it to respect that notice period; or

(b) exercises a right of termination under an imperative reason pursuant to national law which is in compliance with Union law;

(c) can demonstrate that the business user concerned has repeatedly infringed the applicable terms and conditions, resulting in the termination of the provision of the whole of the online intermediation services in question.

In cases where the notice period in paragraph 2 does not apply, the provider of online intermediation services shall provide the business user concerned, without undue delay, with a statement of reasons for that decision on a durable medium.

So it all comes down to what their reasons for the suspension were.

EDIT: Just saw this update: https://mobile.twitter.com/element_hq/status/135546565011484... So they revealed their reasons within 12 hours, which I'm going to file under "without undue delay". (But did they use a "durable medium"?)

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#493

Post by spians »

grishka wrote: post #458
oji0hub wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Installing software outside of play store is technically possible, but if something contains enough hurdles, most people won't do it, which results in no users and a meaningless platform.

There aren't that many hurdles. 1. You download the apk 2. When you try to install it, it tells you it's from an unknown source and the installation was blocked to protect you 3. You tap "settings" and flip a switch to allow installing apps from your browser 4. You go back and tap "install". That's it. It's done. And you won't need to go to the settings the next time, it'll just work.

These are still four more steps then what it takes to directly install from the Play Store. Most people would view any of these four steps as hurdle.

> And you won't need to go to the settings the next time, it'll just work.

You will still have to find the apk when there is an update, download it and confirm install. There are still three steps to update the apk compared to Play Store's one tap (or even zero clicks if automatic updates are on). Only "Allow installing from this source" step is removed when updating the app.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#494

Post by ttt0 »

ttt0 wrote: post #342
laumars wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If this is actually what is happening, That’s a big “if” though. The “abusive content” angle is just a working theory. It could just as easily be Goodge taking a dislike to a website link offering donations outside of the Play store (or something equally mundane). The problem is, until Google respond, we have no idea why the takedown happened. And here lies the real problem: without Google being transparent about t…

Sure. But as we learned, the only way to get them to respond at all is to do what we're doing right now. Blow the story up all over the internet, accuse them of censorship, call for regulations and hopefully get the media to pick it up. And just to be clear, I'm not saying that the accusations of censorship and calls for regulations are dishonest on our part. I really do believe that what they are doing is censorship…

Yep, abusive content.

> Morning all. We've had contact from Google confirming that the suspension is due to abusive content somewhere on Matrix; we're working with them to explain how Element works and get the situation resolved.

https://twitter.com/element_hq/status/1355465650114846720

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#495

Post by itronitron »

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #462
Arathorn wrote: post #3

So we got notified by the developer console at 21:45 UTC that the app had been suspended, but still haven’t had an email to explain why - it’s 02:24 now. Our assumption that this is due to someone reporting abusive content in Matrix to Google, and Element catching the blame — although this is currently speculation. To be clear: Element is a Matrix client just as Chrome is a Web browser, and just as it’s possible to v…

Update posted on Twitter: > Morning all. We've had contact from Google confirming that the suspension is due to abusive content somewhere on Matrix; we're working with them to explain how Element works and get the situation resolved.

Maybe someone can let Google know that Element is not a publisher.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#496

Post by HereBeBeasties »

enriquto wrote: post #434
Arnavion wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first sentence is about Element. The second sentence is about matrix.org

It seems to me that it is the other way round, isn't it? Although having matrix.org be an Element client is extremely confusing. If "matrix.org" is moderated it would seem that the whole protocol is moderated (and thus, not a neutral carrier).

In web terms: - Element is like a browser - matrix.org is like a bulletin board

In e-mail terms: - Element is like a mail client - matrix.org is like a given community of mailing lists

In IRC terms: - Element is like an IRC client - matrix.org is like an IRC server/network e.g. Freenode.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#497

Post by kubanczyk »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #225
sova wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The infrastructure is run by private parties -- but since the advent of encryption it ought be possible to lay down some basic principles or precepts of the online denizen. "The Right to be Forgotten" is a strong step in the right direction, but anonymity sometimes makes people act rashly -- which reminds me of the need for Nettiquette. I believe the difficulty comes in guaranteeing backdoors for law-enforcement and…

Free software. Guaranteeing backdoors is a terrible strategy that should not even be considered.

Parent is concerned what will happen in the world where we actually exist.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#499

Post by chithanh »

walrus01 wrote: post #289
Shorel wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Newsflash: there is a chat system so secure, Google doesn't want you to know it exists.

I don't think that can be the full rationale behind whatever got it removed, if that were the case, they'd absolutely have removed Signal quite some time ago.

Signal can at least in principle censor user content, because they control both server and clients. (And they do, for example you can "delete" your messages that are stored on other clients.)

With Matrix you have the choice to use whatever server or client you like, which makes it difficult to censor.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#500

Post by pmlnr »

Arathorn wrote: post #472
Arathorn wrote: post #3

So we got notified by the developer console at 21:45 UTC that the app had been suspended, but still haven’t had an email to explain why - it’s 02:24 now. Our assumption that this is due to someone reporting abusive content in Matrix to Google, and Element catching the blame — although this is currently speculation. To be clear: Element is a Matrix client just as Chrome is a Web browser, and just as it’s possible to v…

We received a generic update at 05:31 UTC confirming that the app had been suspended due to abusive content (Sexual Content and Profanity: https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ... ); we're following up to explain how Matrix and Element works and get this resolved.

This is insane. This jeopardizes every email, xmpp, matrix, etc; basically any 3rd party application.
Post reply on HN