Ask HN: Remote workers in a non-tech city, what's your experience? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Remote workers in a non-tech city, what's your experience?

#171

Post by sedachv » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 9:52 PM UTC

zuhayeer wrote: post #92

mancerayder wrote: post #79

I want to ask a question to the group, too. How do the companies headquartered in SF and NYC and places like that decide your salary and if you are in a cheaper locale? Do they give you a lower salary, are taxes weird, is there an awkward conversation with HR? Has anyone moved from an expensive place to a cheaper place and dealt with awkward company reactions (HR)?

Some companies have released salary percentiles (relative to HQ) for the adjustment to remote. For example, a company in the Bay Area published this for total comp. Most companies seem to be following similarly: Bay Area: 93% NY: 93% Seattle: 92% Los Angeles: 91% Boston: 91% San Diego: 88% Denver: 86% Chicago: 85% Portland: 83% Philadelphia: 83% Atlanta: 83% Minneapolis: 83% Austin: 82% Florida: 81% Salt Lake City: 8…

"Cost-of-living adjustment" is the biggest wage fixing scheme since the 2005 Apple-Google wage fixing agreement. You are doing the same work, producing the same results, while the company is saving a ton of money on office rent, parking, security, electricity, etc. At the same time they declare you have to take a pay cut!

Do not agree to it. The company has no negotiating position here - it will be very disruptive and costly to replace employees right now. HR can only make an example of a handful of people before terminations prove so disruptive that the wheels start coming off and the other managers go after them.

If you have already agreed to a cost-of-living adjustment, renegotiate. If they fire you because of the cost-of-living adjustment, join a class-action lawsuit. If for whatever reason you think you cannot negotiate in your own best interest (not true! as a tech worker, you have most of the negotiating advantage), unionize.

Re: Ask HN: Remote workers in a non-tech city, what's your experience?

#172

Post by BugsBunny1991 » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 11:09 PM UTC

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #95

lostmsu wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have recently started considering Florida (from Seattle). What is the advantage of Sarasota over larger metropolitan area like Tampa? We are in early 30ies, and would love to be able to walk to the ocean/gulf beach a few times a week, have a symmetric fiber Internet at home, and people to hang out with for music/games/geekery.

In general you want to pick where you live based on property values, flood zone, average hurricane damage, proximity to work, and convenience to other things (like the beach you mention). But almost universally you will be driving everywhere, so don't worry too much about it. Florida is one giant concrete strip mall on top of a swamp. So in general, figure out where you will hang out the most or with whom, and be nea…

My parents are on the verge of retiring in Clearwater and they're trying to persuade their children to come with them. My sister and her family are already considering it. I'm pretty skeptical about the whole thing, being single, nearing 30, and having lived in a city (Chicago proper) for the entirety of my life. It seems like a good move, financially, though I know two people who say they hate Florida (one from Tampa who couldn't wait to leave) and I can only guess that it's as terrible as you say. Should I suck it up and move anyway? I'm already somewhat socially withdrawn and it would be good to be near my parents in their old age.

Re: Ask HN: Remote workers in a non-tech city, what's your experience?

#173

Post by M5x7wI3CmbEem10 » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 11:31 PM UTC

smeej wrote: post #133

M5x7wI3CmbEem10 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

new grad here. any city and seaside town recommendations?

If you like having ocean, forest, mountain, lake, and city all within close range, and not paying state income or sales taxes, New Hampshire's coastal cities (Portsmouth, et al) are awesome. Yes, it gets cold, but you don't have to go out in it if you don't want to. You can go from heated space to heated space pretty easily.

I've heard NH is quite barren, though.

Re: Ask HN: Remote workers in a non-tech city, what's your experience?

#174

Post by M5x7wI3CmbEem10 » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 11:32 PM UTC

paul_f wrote: post #148

M5x7wI3CmbEem10 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

new grad here. any city and seaside town recommendations?

I work remotely and live in a seaside town in Florida. No state income tax, reasonable housing prices and cost of living, biking, boating fishing, golfing, 12 months a year. Many great options in Florida such as St Augustine, Sarasota, Jupiter, Pensacola.

I'm most concerned about crime and hurricanes in FL. Any thoughts?

Re: Ask HN: Remote workers in a non-tech city, what's your experience?

#175

Post by npmanor » Sun, Jan 31, 2021, 12:02 AM UTC

M5x7wI3CmbEem10 wrote: post #173

smeej wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you like having ocean, forest, mountain, lake, and city all within close range, and not paying state income or sales taxes, New Hampshire's coastal cities (Portsmouth, et al) are awesome. Yes, it gets cold, but you don't have to go out in it if you don't want to. You can go from heated space to heated space pretty easily.

I've heard NH is quite barren, though.

The southeast, especially around interstates 93 and 95 are quite populated. It might not look it sometimes due to lots of trees between homes in the older developments, though.

Re: Ask HN: Remote workers in a non-tech city, what's your experience?

#176

Post by wernercd » Sun, Jan 31, 2021, 12:14 AM UTC

Gene_Parmesan wrote: post #124

wernercd wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Coming to enjoy remote over pandemic I enjoy remote but I miss the office. I think I'm part of the majority that would love 2 days in, 3 days out of the office (or some mix close to that). I can definitely see a single remote worker of a bunch is a recipe for a bad experience as you are just out of the loop and in a company that probably hasn't or won't adopt the things needed for it to be successful.

Also someone who misses the office, although my ratio is more like 4 in, 1 out. I think society is seeing an explosion currently in people who have never had the opportunity to work remotely, and who are now doing so for the first time. I feel like many of these people are maybe not thinking about how they will feel if their job is still remote 5 years from now. Work is where a huge amount of social interaction occur…

I'd be find with 4 out/1 in... or even 3 in/2 out - I'm pretty happy where I work and I enjoy like in the office... but I also enjoy it at home.

> Social interact has been nullified

That's why I'd prefer more than 1 day in the office. Its about a year out and I already miss my podcasts, the walk from parking to the office and meetings around the table.

I think managers want people in the office (generally) because that's easier to manage (traditionally). So once vaccines become The Norm, it'll be a move back towards that. I think that companies that have done remote can't go back 100% in office though (with exceptions) and won't stay 100% remote (again, with exceptions).

I don't see my company staying 100% remote but we have done real well with remote (and a switch to agile/scrum, coincidentally, at the same time).

Re: Ask HN: Remote workers in a non-tech city, what's your experience?

#177

Post by wernercd » Sun, Jan 31, 2021, 12:17 AM UTC

ashtonkem wrote: post #164

wernercd wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Coming to enjoy remote over pandemic I enjoy remote but I miss the office. I think I'm part of the majority that would love 2 days in, 3 days out of the office (or some mix close to that). I can definitely see a single remote worker of a bunch is a recipe for a bad experience as you are just out of the loop and in a company that probably hasn't or won't adopt the things needed for it to be successful.

You do you, but I’ve never understood this. Semi-remote arrangements seem to me like the worst of both worlds; you have to live close enough to the office for a reasonable commute 1-2x a week, and you’ve got to pay for enough space to work from home. Since you’re staying within commuting range, you probably won’t be able to get the really cheap housing. I’d rather live in a small apartment and close to the office, or…

"You do you" that's part of it... I live on a family farm so I can't "move to the city" and I can't bring the jobs to me - so I have a long commute for a good wage. It's a tradeoff. ("cheap housing" isn't an issue - we own the land... but at an "extreme" commuting range)

So for me, partial remote is perfect... I get "social interactions" that remote can't replace... while losing a large chunk of commute (hours a day).

If I wasn't "tied to the land", I'd move to the job in a heartbeat.

Re: Ask HN: Remote workers in a non-tech city, what's your experience?

#178

Post by mbrodersen » Sun, Jan 31, 2021, 2:18 AM UTC

gfxgirl wrote: post #63

coldwaraaron wrote: post #49

I've been working remote for 7 years. Mostly in small towns in Texas, but a couple in a big city. It was fun and good for awhile. It got lonely and hard after year 5. I didn't do a good job of getting enough rest and time away from work, and got burned out. It took 3 months of part time to get back to normal. Your team has a big impact on your well-being. If they encourage healthy work/life balance and you have a hea…

> I've spent this afternoon working on a patio at a little cafe in the downtown area of a small town This sounds like hell to me. My joy is being on a small team in a room with 6-10 other people where we collaborate with each other, calling out, asking for advice on solutions, designing together, getting lunch together, and being in each other presence. Sitting an a cafe staring at a screen and ignoring all the stran…

> being on a small team in a room with 6-10 other people

That sounds like hell to me. I prefer a quiet office where I can concentrate without constantly being interrupted. So it clearly depends on your personality whether it works for you or not.

Re: Ask HN: Remote workers in a non-tech city, what's your experience?

#179

Post by 0xbadcafebee » Sun, Jan 31, 2021, 5:22 AM UTC

lostmsu wrote: post #161

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general you want to pick where you live based on property values, flood zone, average hurricane damage, proximity to work, and convenience to other things (like the beach you mention). But almost universally you will be driving everywhere, so don't worry too much about it. Florida is one giant concrete strip mall on top of a swamp. So in general, figure out where you will hang out the most or with whom, and be nea…

Are you saying Tampa has no descent concert venues? What about local bands? Maybe I am misreading, but the only downsides in your comment are crime and hurricanes.

I sort of meant to include music as part of "going to a bar". You can find good live music in some parts, depending on the genre. Like bad college jam bands? Move to Gainesville. Like afro-funk, punk and indie? Move to Miami. Like bad cover bands? Probably all large cities in Florida got you covered. Alternately, few national/international bands actually tour down into Florida, or only hit a few towns.

As someone who moved from Florida to the Northeast, the biggest drawback to Florida is the outdoors. It's warm, humid, there's showers half the time, bugs everywhere, there are no seasons or elevation. So what you're left with is water sports [minus surfing].

It also lacks culture. Not so much music, but any other form of art that isn't centered around Wynwood only exists as much as the elderly will invest in it. Compare to Baltimore, a tiny northeast city with a crap economy, which has probably more arts diversity than all of Florida combined [outside of Miami]. Why? Everybody sits in their house or goes to the bar. Why be an artist when you can do heroin on the beach?

And the people really are garbage. I was one of those garbage people. I changed so much after moving away. I don't even know why. I just know when I left, everywhere I went, people seemed nicer.

If you just want to live alone and still be able to go to the beach, there are an infinite number of cities on either coast where you can do that without all those downsides. I dunno. Maybe there are reasons people move to Florida other than the weather. I personally cannot fathom it.

Re: Ask HN: Remote workers in a non-tech city, what's your experience?

#180

Post by 0xbadcafebee » Sun, Jan 31, 2021, 5:29 AM UTC

BugsBunny1991 wrote: post #172

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general you want to pick where you live based on property values, flood zone, average hurricane damage, proximity to work, and convenience to other things (like the beach you mention). But almost universally you will be driving everywhere, so don't worry too much about it. Florida is one giant concrete strip mall on top of a swamp. So in general, figure out where you will hang out the most or with whom, and be nea…

My parents are on the verge of retiring in Clearwater and they're trying to persuade their children to come with them. My sister and her family are already considering it. I'm pretty skeptical about the whole thing, being single, nearing 30, and having lived in a city (Chicago proper) for the entirety of my life. It seems like a good move, financially, though I know two people who say they hate Florida (one from Tamp…

Why not live somewhere where you can enjoy your life, and fly down to visit your parents? Flights to Florida are dirt cheap from the northeast or Spirit hubs (like $30-$120 round trip, you can't even drive to NYC from DC for that).

Even if you're socially withdrawn (hell, I am) you can get so much more out of life even on your own in a place where there's nature, culture, diversity, nice people. Where you don't have to drive four hours to get to another large metro area. And that's just one area of the U.S.

It's a big world out there. Moving to Florida is like throwing the world away. You only get one life, don't waste it.