Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#721

Post by pmlnr » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 4:03 PM UTC

veeti wrote: post #621

pmlnr wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is insane. This jeopardizes every email, xmpp, matrix, etc; basically any 3rd party application.

Being suspended for user generated content has been a rite of passage for third party reddit clients. It's crazy how this happens again, again and again. https://old.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/96l0at/sync_for_re... https://old.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/6dwv1f/boost_for_r... https://old.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/5fqrr8/now_for_red...

There is a significant difference there though: reddit is still a single, central entity. Matrix, XMPP, email, (and activitypub based systems, ssbc, and anything federated) could be connecting to one's own server. It could be a machine in my basement.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#722

Post by sneak » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 4:06 PM UTC

khimaros wrote: post #698

cxr wrote: post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We're also looking into running our own F-Droid repository going forwards That's great to hear as well.

i disagree. the main repository enforces reproducible builds and restricts trackers. please keep the main repo up to date.

The main repository also signs everything with f-droid keys, not the original developer's. This means any compromise in f-droid compromises everything.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#723

Post by xenophonB » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 4:06 PM UTC

Veen wrote: post #433

danieldisu wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing that bureaucrats fined Microsoft for putting IE as default and keep allowing apple to do what they want. Europe should force these companies to allow users to install any software they want in their devices as long as it is legal...

> It's amazing that bureaucrats fined Microsoft for putting IE as default and keep allowing apple to do what they want. The difference is that Microsoft attempted to use its operating system monopoly to win the browser wars. Bundling Internet Explorer with Windows made it difficult for other browsers to compete on an even playing field. Apple doesn't have an operating system monopoly on the desktop or mobile. MacOS a…

Sorry but a duopoly is little different than a monopoly functionally.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#724

Post by sneak » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 4:06 PM UTC

qwertox wrote: post #552

pmlnr wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is insane. This jeopardizes every email, xmpp, matrix, etc; basically any 3rd party application.

> This jeopardizes every email, xmpp, matrix, etc; basically any 3rd party application. Except of course Google's own applications. Gmail, Hangouts/Meet/whatever-it-currently-is, Chrome. Luckily it's not possible to display illegal content with Google's own apps /s I remember when my nephew got groomed on Google Plus, I was way to naive to think that this would not be occurring in Google's walled gardens. But in ther…

The app in question wasn't suspended for illegal content, it was suspended for profanity.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#725

Post by Macha » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 4:07 PM UTC

Kinrany wrote: post #715

Macha wrote: post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is mostly untrue. There was no requirement to blacklist gab. Mastodon clients on f-droid are allowed let users use Gab. What f-droid does not allow is apps preconfigured to connect to Gab, or who's primary purpose is to connect to Gab. There was even a petition to have fdroid remove an app (fedilab) that had a blacklist to disallow Gab then removed it, claiming that removing Gab from the blacklist was specifical…

Could you rephrase the fourth paragraph?

fedilab was allowed despite removing a blacklist. This was because not having a blacklist was not the app's sole distinction from other mastodon apps (it had a majorly different UI), so its purpose was determined to be more than just accessing Gab.

However, some fdroid users asked for its removal. They felt removing the blacklist feature, which had previously only blocked gab, was itself an endorsement of Gab and indicated the app's purpose was to access Gab since the other available mastodon app (Tusky) still had a blacklist.

fdroid did not agree and fedilab is still available.

OpenTusky was not allowed as it was literally Tusky with the server blacklist removed, created in response to Tusky blocking Gab. It also advertised this in the app description, so fdroid judged it to be primarily for accessing gab and removed it.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#726

Post by Spivak » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 4:07 PM UTC

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #462

Arathorn wrote: post #3

So we got notified by the developer console at 21:45 UTC that the app had been suspended, but still haven’t had an email to explain why - it’s 02:24 now. Our assumption that this is due to someone reporting abusive content in Matrix to Google, and Element catching the blame — although this is currently speculation. To be clear: Element is a Matrix client just as Chrome is a Web browser, and just as it’s possible to v…

Update posted on Twitter: > Morning all. We've had contact from Google confirming that the suspension is due to abusive content somewhere on Matrix; we're working with them to explain how Element works and get the situation resolved.

I think it’s funny that they think Google cares at all about the implementation details of your service. The only thing that matters to app reviewers is what the user sees when they use it. If you make your app technically unmoderatable, impossible to remove illegal content, or impossible to respond to DMCA requests you don’t get to just throw your hands up.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#727

Post by sneak » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 4:08 PM UTC

brnt wrote: post #636

Arathorn wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We received a generic update at 05:31 UTC confirming that the app had been suspended due to abusive content (Sexual Content and Profanity: https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ... ); we're following up to explain how Matrix and Element works and get this resolved.

Wonder if we can get Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp off the Play store like this as well. "Side effects include: sexual content and coups."

No need to wonder. The Facebook and WhatsApp apps are why people buy phones. If a phone/platform can't run Facebook/WhatsApp, people will buy different ones that can.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#728

Post by pimeys » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 4:08 PM UTC

Oh wow, this chat has blown up with messages and I doubt anybody will see this message at this point, but here we go.

During these weeks of being at home and having lots of free time after work, I've been doing _projects_. For a while, I've been reading how people rant about Matrix always on HN, and I finally decided to suck it, install my own home server and try it out by myself.

The installation for sure requires a bit of understanding about DNS and you kind of (if you want things to be simpler) need two servers: one for your root domain and other for your matrix server. If you nail these two things correctly, can wait a bit for the DNS records to spread out in the network, you'll get the matrix federation working quite nicely.

I highly recommend using some of the automated tools, such as the ansible playbook[0] to help you out maintaining the server. It makes setting up the bridges for other chat platforms very easy.

I have to say, having one application for all my chats. The same interface, no need to install five apps to talk with people, this all is so nice. It's definitely worth the trouble, even when with Synapse you need a bit more powerful server, like four gigs of RAM is a good minimum for a server and all the bridges. Now we only need to have an easy way to install the clients, so we can help our not so technologically advanced friends to join. I think Google knows this; how in 2021 people are forming their own communities, outside of the power of the big corporations. Now Matrix is quite technology oriented, it feels like IRC back in the 90s which I really enjoy!

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#729

Post by Spivak » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 4:09 PM UTC

itronitron wrote: post #495

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Update posted on Twitter: > Morning all. We've had contact from Google confirming that the suspension is due to abusive content somewhere on Matrix; we're working with them to explain how Element works and get the situation resolved.

Maybe someone can let Google know that Element is not a publisher.

No but Matrix.org will likely be considered one. I mean the Twitter app isn’t a publisher but Twitter sure it.

If Matrix only facilitated private communications then they could probably tell Google to piss off but they became a social network when they included public chatrooms.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#730

Post by xenophonB » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 4:09 PM UTC

dexen wrote: post #599

m12k wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we just please pass some legislation to break Google and Apple's app installation monopoly already? Sure, they built the phones, doesn't mean we can't demand more rights than they decide it's profitable to give us (or put another way, just because the king's ancestors founded the country doesn't mean we shouldn't demand freedom and democracy).

Can we just please pass some legislation to break Google and Apple's app installation monopoly already? No, we can't solve the problem that way: the very same problem wound remain: EU and 5/9 Eyes want e2ee backdoored or gone. If you start legislating which apps are allowed, you're putting yourself even more at mercy of gov regulation. And the regulation would be blanket, with little to no way of sorting things out t…

They can't practically do that, you're just making up a course of events that can't happen (people can develop things anonymously and be paid anonymously, and it's absolute nonsense to say that governments are going to be arresting the general public for the "crime" of privacy.

And in America at least it's almost certainly unconstitutional.