Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#681

Post by XorNot » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 2:58 PM UTC

waheoo wrote: post #654

XorNot wrote: post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't libertarians all about the absolute sanctity of private property over all other concerns? How is a pro-business ideology remotely justifying government intervention in the practice and moderation decisions of a private company? Wouldn't the rectification involve the government specifically dictating their business behaviour?

Wikipedia: Libertarians seek to maximize autonomy and political freedom, emphasizing free association, freedom of choice, individualism and voluntary association. Libertarians share a skepticism of authority and state power, but some of them diverge on the scope of their opposition to existing economic and political systems. If you want to get specific on the economic front I diverge a bit and fall somewhere along th…

I'm not seeing a meaningful objection to Google doing what it wants with moderation of its own platform though.

"Do what you want" in the free market is exactly this behavior.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

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Post by conradev » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 3:00 PM UTC

eganist wrote: post #678

conradev wrote: post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google has no (competitive) horse in the messenger race, so while that theory might fit your ideological point of view, I don’t understand why Google itself would have any incentive (or grounds) to remove an open source chat app. How is Matrix a threat to Google?

> How is Matrix a threat to Google? Conjecture on my part: it's a threat to the ad spend Google gets from Facebook.

Facebook (24%) and Google (32%) compete pretty intensely for mobile ad spend. While we don’t know how much Facebook uses Google ads, that theory isn’t particularly satisfying because they compete so intensely.

https://www.fastcompany.com/4032442/its-still-pi-day-so-we-d...

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

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Post by mensetmanusman » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 3:06 PM UTC

tmpz22 wrote: post #249

uncoder0 wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You, like Parler, have been targeted by the powers that be. You may have nothing else in common other than that but, you're in the same boat it seems.

Parler curated the content on their platform for months including shadowbanning new accounts until they had been approved by volunteer moderators. Accounts on Parler called for and planned violence against elected officials for months. Executives at the company spoke often and publicly supporting that content. If your going to argue with a straight face the this new situation is the same as Parler, your putting Eleme…

It turns out it was Facebook that was used for planning.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

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Post by mrec » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 3:06 PM UTC

monopoledance wrote: post #645

emayljames wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I totally get the enjoyment of not being "always available". I have had lengthy periods without a phone, and it teaches you that; no, you don't have to be always available, and no the world will not end etc. The only "social media" I use is Reddit, but it isn't/I don't use it as they person centric networks like boomerbook/twitter.

Reddit is by far the hardest to quit tho. I get constantly dragged into the shitshow, but can't really get off, because there is useful information there, I can't find anywhere else. In a similar way, I can't quit smartphones for encrypted messaging and navigation (not even Google Maps, but OSMand).

I don't lump Reddit into the same bucket as FB/Twitter. It's perfectly possible to have a sane, even pleasant experience there if you stay out of the default subs and the obvious dumpster fires. And I think stable-but-pseudonymous identity is turning out to have been the right call.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#685

Post by Daho0n » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 3:06 PM UTC

brnt wrote: post #636

Arathorn wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We received a generic update at 05:31 UTC confirming that the app had been suspended due to abusive content (Sexual Content and Profanity: https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ... ); we're following up to explain how Matrix and Element works and get this resolved.

Wonder if we can get Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp off the Play store like this as well. "Side effects include: sexual content and coups."

You could if it were small apps.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#686

Post by Macha » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 3:06 PM UTC

olah_1 wrote: post #661

unethical_ban wrote: post #399

Don't forget that F-Droid is a thing, and Android still has at least that much freedom - to install your own software. Who would have thought 30 years ago someone would be saying "People can run any code they want on their computer" as a shocking thing.

F-Droid bans apps for “hate speech” too[1]. Any mastodon app that refused to blacklist Gab got banned from F-Droid or something like that. It is the perfect example of why I don’t even bother with federated projects. It’s just “wouldn’t it be great if _I_ were in charge?” If that’s the situation, I’d rather Big Tech be in charge because at least they have some name recognition and hierarchy for decision making. Nobod…

This is mostly untrue.

There was no requirement to blacklist gab. Mastodon clients on f-droid are allowed let users use Gab.

What f-droid does not allow is apps preconfigured to connect to Gab, or who's primary purpose is to connect to Gab.

There was even a petition to have fdroid remove an app (fedilab) that had a blacklist to disallow Gab then removed it, claiming that removing Gab from the blacklist was specifically endorsing it, and there were some people who tried to claiming that not apps that were not blacklisting Gab when other apps did meant those apps primary purpose was to connect to Gab, but f-droid weren't having it: https://gitlab.com/fdroid/fdroiddata/-/issues/1736.

However, they did consider an app that was a straight fork tracking another with the only change being the removal of a blacklist to be disallowed.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

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Post by peteradio » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 3:09 PM UTC

onethought wrote: post #635

dvdkon wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Terms and conditions" often contain more than just restrictions on copying, they can have everything from arbitration clauses, through anti-interoperability clauses, to obligations that go directly against local laws.

That’s not what I was replying to. There are legit uses is terms and conditions... so where should they go? The GP said software should be bought like everything else... but everything else can’t be easily duplicated and shared... so how will that work?

If I buy an apple, maybe I want to eat it. Perhaps I'd like to smoosh it under my boot. Maybe it goes up me bum. Now what does a magic apple copier have to do with me putting apples up my bum?

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#688

Post by cxr » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 3:13 PM UTC

Arathorn wrote: post #680

cxr wrote: post #672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will Matrix respond to this by pointing out that F-Droid is a viable option for people intending to publish or use FOSS apps?

good point; have updated the blog post.

> We're also looking into running our own F-Droid repository going forwards

That's great to hear as well.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

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Post by petre » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 3:14 PM UTC

AmericanChopper wrote: post #347

petre wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish Google and Apple are going to be hit with fines and regulation in the EU because of this once the comissioners have better things to occupy themselves with other than the pandemic.

If you look at any legislation that’s been proposed to address this, in the EU or anywhere else, it hasn’t been anything that’s going to make the situation any better. Lots of governments around the world are very upset that these cartels have the ability to restrict people’s access to the internet without any oversight or due process. But that’s not because they think it’s harmful for peoples access to these service…

I'm not talking about acces to the internet but about app store monopoly. It's similar with MS shipping IE bundled with Windows for which they got fined.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#690

Post by COGlory » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 3:16 PM UTC

ognarb wrote: post #647

elkos wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I get to work with matrix and element io plasma mobile I'm ordering a device next day.

NeoChat does work on Plasma Mobile but it is still missing a few features to be production ready. https://carlschwan.eu/2020/12/23/announcing-neochat-1.0-the-... I'm currently working on encryption support in the base library: https://github.com/quotient-im/libQuotient/pull/443 and once this is done the other big missing feature are notifications.

Thank you for your work on that