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Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

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Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#271

Post by marcus_holmes »

Pampleti wrote: post #237
rajarsheem wrote: post #210

Even if I could, I would not call that an achievement. In programming, we are expected to understand concepts, not memorize documentation of a library. Of course, if you are too specialized working with few libraries/frameworks, you will naturally end up knowing its methods by heart. But that doesn't mean searching things up online is a bad practice. In fact, I believe it is more useful to keep updating yourself from…

Warning: weird analogy is coming up. I learned to write java code (structure, basic io (terminal, file, datastructures) blind like in word or notepad and it would run without errors for a google interview; It is not that much you need to know actually but when you learn it once, it lingers around for quite a long time and it gives you a different feeling of confidence that you actually know java (i was writing java c…

My problem is remembering the syntax of the language I'm in rather than other languages I've learned.

To use your analogy; it gets tricky doing push-ups because my body remembers doing crunches and my knees get in the way.

Better analogy: I'm learning German at the moment, but my brain keeps "helpfully" supplying the French word whenever I'm mentally grepping for German vocab.

Remembering that JS switches need a break statement but Go switches don't - or that JS If statements need the brackets but not the braces, and Go If statements don't need the brackets but do need the braces. This shit trips me up even after years of coding in just JS and Go.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#272

Post by blablabla123 »

As others pointed out, it doesn't matter in a professional setting since everything tends to be very well organized. But I realized when I work on solo projects, it helps a lot to be fluent with the tools I use. Because when I have an idea, I think it's better to implement it swiftly, otherwise the enthusiasm fades :-)

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#273

Post by gebt »

aerovistae wrote: post #242
gebt wrote: post #209

This ability would be a big time saver during development. I enjoy to develop without Googling; really enjoy! I tried some other amazing things: - developing without using touchpad or mouse. - debugging without running code until the end. - developing with turn offed WiFi. In general, I'm always trying to reduce my needs. I think this practices would help me to be more accurate, more independent, and become able to l…

I thought this was a joke until I realized you were serious; I was expecting that as I read further into the list it would get to "-develop without using my hands" and "-develop with my eyes closed" (which are legitimate situations for disabled developers, btw) but which would be absurd for anyone to practice under conventional conditions.

It's not absurd. At least it improves you mental abilities; as when you try to write using your other hand.

p.s. Even occasionally I'm walking closed eyes.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#274

Post by bjohnson225 »

anon9001 wrote: post #264
pharmakom wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take a completely opposite view. If I get stuck on something, I go straight to StackOverflow etc to ask for a solution or at least get more information. Then, I can keep tinkering myself or switch to a completely different task. I am far more productive when I leverage The Hive Mind. Plus, these questions give me a great reference for next year when I am doing something similar but have forgotten the details. This…

> This approach probably works well because I know how things work at a high level; I think it would be disastrous to do this without any real understanding. I actually interview for this skill specifically. I stress to candidates that they can and should search the web in whatever way they would when tasked with code in real life. The speed at which someone can process search results and stackoverflow responses to f…

I wouldn’t be surprised if people feel uncomfortable googling in an interview even when told it’s fine.

You’re being judged for your knowledge (in part at least), googling something fairly basic doesn’t feel great even if it’s completely normal to do that in normal development.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#275

Post by nottorp »

I probably can't start an app for any framework without googling. Except basic console apps.

Thing is, you don't start apps every day. In some jobs, not even every year.

Whatever's initial setup and not related to the actual functionality you're working on will fade from your mind, and that's good. You can concentrate on the thing you're trying to do then.

I do miss offline documentation though.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#276

Post by brailsafe »

nottorp wrote: post #275

I probably can't start an app for any framework without googling. Except basic console apps. Thing is, you don't start apps every day. In some jobs, not even every year. Whatever's initial setup and not related to the actual functionality you're working on will fade from your mind, and that's good. You can concentrate on the thing you're trying to do then. I do miss offline documentation though.

Dash app for mac is great for offline docs

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#277

Post by pakitan »

rriepe wrote: post #269
pakitan wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The speed at which someone can process search results and stackoverflow responses to filter out crap and find the solution is the best proxy I've found for developer productivity. That's interesting. What is your experience with harder problems - ones that can't be just googled? Do you find that those same "googlers" still outperform the more "independent" developers?

I'm one of these people. The other skill is endlessly breaking a problem down into steps small enough to stumble through with this approach. And the other other thing to know is when not to do it, like for the core business logic, or for anything that needs to be really fast.

If by "these people" you mean the "googlers", yes, I'm one of them too and I think the same applies to most developers so I know how to approach harder problems. However, I was curious about the employer's perspective, whether maybe "independent" developers have some advantage with problems that can't be readily googled.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#278

Post by ikt »

feliyur wrote: post #265

I rarely do google at all - DuckDuckGo is usually more than enough. Seriously, web search is usually the most efficient way to find documentation. This also works for finding math definitions / formulae (usually on Wikipedia) instead of skimming through books. In all, consulting literature sounds legit, and web search is usually the fastest way.

Glad someone else noticed, after using Duckduck for around 2 to 3 years now seeing someone Google something seems really archaic.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#279

Post by II2II »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #232

Using documentation is fine. You aren't going to solder stuff only by eyeballing the component packaging either. On-line information? That's another question entirely. This would be a more interesting test: can you make a basic webapp (or other type of app representative of your experience) without Internet access ? If you're dealing with an older stack and toolkit, you probably have many books' worth of manuals alre…

> Using documentation is fine. You aren't going to solder stuff only by eyeballing the component packaging either.

> On-line information? That's another question entirely. This would be a more interesting test: can you make a basic webapp (or other type of app representative of your experience) without Internet access?

I would suggest that the type of information is important, rather than the medium. It is not that solving the issue yourself is better than talking to other people. It is a matter of ensuring the validity of the information as well as it's suitability to the task. That is more difficult to do without referencing language or library documentation, and I suspect that it is not being done at all by most of the people who rely upon searching the Internet.

While the quality of books is better (on average) than online information, one still has to be selective. The market is flooded with books that offer shallow explanations or are simply a rehash of what dozens of other books have discussed. Not only does the latter limit the breadth of knowledge, but the nuggets of insight offered by any given author are usually so deeply buried that they are easy to miss. Sometimes it is more productive to scour the Internet because of that.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#280

Post by MrMid »

beefield wrote: post #219
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I make no attempt to write code without googling. In my position as a robotics engineer my work covers such a breadth that I guess I just outsource my memory to Google. I don’t remember the syntax for many common Linux commands. I don’t remember how bash scripts work. I constantly look recommended ways of solving certain problems. Google is just integrated in to my process.

This applies to me as well. There are lots and lots of small things I do so rarely that I just can't keep the details in my memory. And I really would love to be able to type "man scp" and on the first lines of the man page to just get a couple of basic examples that I could basically copy-paste and change the server addresses to suit. But instead I get a ciphertext of all possible flags I can use, so in the end it i…

Take a look at https://tldr.sh/.
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