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Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

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Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#261

After two years of doing Rails I still regularly have to look up methods like 'select' on an array / active record collection, the various group, group_by, find, find_by, max, max_by, tally, partition and loads of different Ruby or ActiveSupport methods, the routing DSL, migration-related methods...

I just did two years of breathing and still have asthma

I'm not sure I follow. Btw I do have asthma, it's annoying and basically incurable.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#262
post #73
post #50

I would not be surprised if even Professional Web Developers cant do it. Especially if you include deployment. This isn't the old days of FTP, Perl or PHP anymore. There are too much information I cant memorise every single bit of it. And I dont think you should either. Especially in the age of Google. My memory capacity has its limit, and there are things I just decide it is not important enough to memorise when I c…

I remain living happily in the old days of PHP, somehow making functioning applications and being paid well. Life is easy and good.

I think I would die from boredom if I had your job doing the same thing which I know how to do over and over again. Wouldn't you just automate something like that with a Factory in Java? Somehow my brain works the exact opposite if I already know how to do something without googling it then it's not interesting anymore and I move on to the next thing outside of my comfort zone.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#263
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Warning: weird analogy is coming up. I learned to write java code (structure, basic io (terminal, file, datastructures) blind like in word or notepad and it would run without errors for a google interview; It is not that much you need to know actually but when you learn it once, it lingers around for quite a long time and it gives you a different feeling of confidence that you actually know java (i was writing java c…

I'm not sure the workout analogy really helps. Our body is really good at optimizing movements you do often enough. Do enough push ups, at some point you will become very good at pushing things, do not expect to be good at pulling though. Run 1 km everyday and you will become a great short distance runner, try to run a marathon and you will miserably fail to finish it. Sure, you will get cardio benefits and get healt…

That’s not really true as long as you keep pushing yourself and aren’t aiming for extreme performance. Wind sprints for example are still useful if you want to compete a marathon in say 6-8 hours.

As to pushups and pulling things, back strength from supporting your body weight on your shoulders would help you pull things. Clearly practicing the motion you want to improve is optimal, but controlled motion generally involves a lot more skeletal muscles than just what’s being targeted.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#264

Using documentation is fine. You aren't going to solder stuff only by eyeballing the component packaging either. On-line information? That's another question entirely. This would be a more interesting test: can you make a basic webapp (or other type of app representative of your experience) without Internet access ? If you're dealing with an older stack and toolkit, you probably have many books' worth of manuals alre…

I take a completely opposite view. If I get stuck on something, I go straight to StackOverflow etc to ask for a solution or at least get more information. Then, I can keep tinkering myself or switch to a completely different task. I am far more productive when I leverage The Hive Mind. Plus, these questions give me a great reference for next year when I am doing something similar but have forgotten the details. This…

> This approach probably works well because I know how things work at a high level; I think it would be disastrous to do this without any real understanding.

I actually interview for this skill specifically. I stress to candidates that they can and should search the web in whatever way they would when tasked with code in real life.

The speed at which someone can process search results and stackoverflow responses to filter out crap and find the solution is the best proxy I've found for developer productivity.

Some people don't search for anything, even after prodding them 3 times that it's 100% fine to search and they definitely won't lose points. They still won't do it, because it's just not how they reason about problems.

Other candidates will immediately identify the problem, search with good queries, quickly navigate through a bunch of sites, find the relevant info, copy/paste, and solve the challenge.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#265
I rarely do google at all - DuckDuckGo is usually more than enough. Seriously, web search is usually the most efficient way to find documentation. This also works for finding math definitions / formulae (usually on Wikipedia) instead of skimming through books. In all, consulting literature sounds legit, and web search is usually the fastest way.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take a completely opposite view. If I get stuck on something, I go straight to StackOverflow etc to ask for a solution or at least get more information. Then, I can keep tinkering myself or switch to a completely different task. I am far more productive when I leverage The Hive Mind. Plus, these questions give me a great reference for next year when I am doing something similar but have forgotten the details. This…

> This approach probably works well because I know how things work at a high level; I think it would be disastrous to do this without any real understanding. I actually interview for this skill specifically. I stress to candidates that they can and should search the web in whatever way they would when tasked with code in real life. The speed at which someone can process search results and stackoverflow responses to f…

> The speed at which someone can process search results and stackoverflow responses to filter out crap and find the solution is the best proxy I've found for developer productivity.

That's interesting. What is your experience with harder problems - ones that can't be just googled? Do you find that those same "googlers" still outperform the more "independent" developers?

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#268
post #226

maybe the browser devtools should be shipped with typescript definitions and mdn docs. If you think they are bloats then another thing to look into would be decoupling the devtools from the browser

I agree, unfortunately MDN has it's own type definition format "Web IDL". This means community must write the type definitions twice, once for specification in Web IDL and second time in TypeScript to get proper IDE support. (There is a converter, not sure how well it works)

Naturally the Web IDL is not as nearly as sophisticated as TypeScript so it would be nice if they could improve the TS to work as a replacement for Web IDL.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This approach probably works well because I know how things work at a high level; I think it would be disastrous to do this without any real understanding. I actually interview for this skill specifically. I stress to candidates that they can and should search the web in whatever way they would when tasked with code in real life. The speed at which someone can process search results and stackoverflow responses to f…

> The speed at which someone can process search results and stackoverflow responses to filter out crap and find the solution is the best proxy I've found for developer productivity. That's interesting. What is your experience with harder problems - ones that can't be just googled? Do you find that those same "googlers" still outperform the more "independent" developers?

I'm one of these people. The other skill is endlessly breaking a problem down into steps small enough to stumble through with this approach.

And the other other thing to know is when not to do it, like for the core business logic, or for anything that needs to be really fast.

Re: Can you make a basic web app without Googling? I can’t

#270
This is mostly a property of your choice of framework.

Many contemporary frameworks come with a project generator, because setting up a basic project is so tedious that it has to be automated.

All these files are configurable, and likely the default configuration is insufficient for your goals. You're starting out with a bunch of technical debt.

It's no wonder if we have to consult online resources to get anywhere.

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