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Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

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Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#521

Post by pmlnr »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #505
grishka wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There aren't that many hurdles. 1. You download the apk 2. When you try to install it, it tells you it's from an unknown source and the installation was blocked to protect you 3. You tap "settings" and flip a switch to allow installing apps from your browser 4. You go back and tap "install". That's it. It's done. And you won't need to go to the settings the next time, it'll just work.

The main hurdle is that (without rooting) there doesn't seem to be a way for alternative app stores to silently update software. That's bearable though unpleasant when you have one or two pieces of software that rarely get updated, that's absolutely impossible when you have 10+ pieces of software - you'll sit there for 5 minutes just approving install prompts every week, which isn't something a normal human is going…

That's a feature, not a bug. Believe it or not, people don't like app/sw updates. Devs and money people do.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#523

Post by brmgb »

corty wrote: post #459
imhoguy wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not meaningless, but agreed not something for mass use yet. Similarly like 30-40 years ago with personal computing, now also geeks start the paradigm shift into privacy-aware computing.

I guess at some point Google will close the F-Droid loophole in Android and only allow installations through the Playstore anymore. You know, for security reasons... winkwink Maybe the real reason will be pressure from the government to hurt the ones like Huawei a little more, maybe it will be the need to squeeze more money, or maybe the need for censorship because those evil alternative app-platforms allow whatever…

> I guess at some point Google will close the F-Droid loophole in Android and only allow installations through the Playstore anymore.

Google standing in Europe is already really shaky. They keep taking fines after fines for abuse of their dominant position. That won't last forever. If they close the ability for other stores to exist, the best case scenario is the EU giving them a huge fine and forcing them to go back. Worst case is being force to split Android out of the main company. Google knows that which is why they will not do it.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#524

Post by Arathorn »

tom_mellior wrote: post #487
Arathorn wrote: post #3

So we got notified by the developer console at 21:45 UTC that the app had been suspended, but still haven’t had an email to explain why - it’s 02:24 now. Our assumption that this is due to someone reporting abusive content in Matrix to Google, and Element catching the blame — although this is currently speculation. To be clear: Element is a Matrix client just as Chrome is a Web browser, and just as it’s possible to v…

Good luck! I hope you get this resolved soon. In the meantime, what is the explanation for the F-Droid version lagging behind?

F-Droid publish their own builds; part of their mission is to independently build and package the upstream from source to avoid risk of the upstream doing anything unpleasant.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#525

Post by grishka »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #505
grishka wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There aren't that many hurdles. 1. You download the apk 2. When you try to install it, it tells you it's from an unknown source and the installation was blocked to protect you 3. You tap "settings" and flip a switch to allow installing apps from your browser 4. You go back and tap "install". That's it. It's done. And you won't need to go to the settings the next time, it'll just work.

The main hurdle is that (without rooting) there doesn't seem to be a way for alternative app stores to silently update software. That's bearable though unpleasant when you have one or two pieces of software that rarely get updated, that's absolutely impossible when you have 10+ pieces of software - you'll sit there for 5 minutes just approving install prompts every week, which isn't something a normal human is going…

> there doesn't seem to be a way for alternative app stores to silently update software

Yes — because that's something reserved for privileged system apps. You have to root your device to take advantage of that, or make a custom ROM with the alternative store in it. Having that ability as a permission you could grant to any app is an immense security risk. But then there are "device administrator" apps that can literally factory reset the device... I don't know. Maybe package installation should be part of that. Especially now that the legacy permission model was taken care of — if you install an app that doesn't support runtime permissions, you'll get a list of its permissions with toggles next to them when you run it for the first time.

> you'll sit there for 5 minutes just approving install prompts every week

Unpopular opinion: well-made software that serves its user doesn't need to be updated very often. Remember how you bought a program on a CD and used the exact same build for years?

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#526

Post by fauigerzigerk »

ath92 wrote: post #468
jgtrosh wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://fosdem.org/2021/about/sponsors/#google Uh oh

It's almost as if Google is not one person but consists of many people with different opinions/interests

It's almost as if these people didn't coordinate at all in spite of operating as part of the same corporation, enjoying protections such as limited liability. Google is not a subreddit.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#527

Post by grishka »

spians wrote: post #493
grishka wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There aren't that many hurdles. 1. You download the apk 2. When you try to install it, it tells you it's from an unknown source and the installation was blocked to protect you 3. You tap "settings" and flip a switch to allow installing apps from your browser 4. You go back and tap "install". That's it. It's done. And you won't need to go to the settings the next time, it'll just work.

These are still four more steps then what it takes to directly install from the Play Store. Most people would view any of these four steps as hurdle. > And you won't need to go to the settings the next time, it'll just work. You will still have to find the apk when there is an update, download it and confirm install. There are still three steps to update the apk compared to Play Store's one tap (or even zero clicks i…

It's possible to build self-update functionality into an app, just like many apps do on desktop. An app can open that installation prompt to update itself.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#528

Post by ainar-g »

pmlnr wrote: post #512
kreeben wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All web browsers that are not Chrome, beware. You're next.

Those might be the exceptions, at least for now. Ever since Firefox's crusade against IE the majority of people seem to still know there are different ~programs~ apps to access the internet with. As long as Chrome is not the default in the overwhelming amount of the operating systems, this might even stay like this, which is why I'm extremely unhappy that Android ships with Chrome these days and not with a thin gui o…

> As long as Chrome is not the default in the overwhelming amount of the operating systems, this might even stay like this, which is why I'm extremely unhappy that Android ships with Chrome these days and not with a thin gui on top of the system webview, like it used to.

That is also why I was rather sad when Microsoft announced that they won't develop their own browser engines any more. I disliked IE as much as anybody else, but what I did like was the competition. With Edge switching to Blink, essentially becoming yet another partially-degooged Chrome, part of that competition is gone.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#529

Post by throwawayfrauds »

est31 wrote: post #442
eternalban wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in US and we have had FDIC as long as I remember. I'm not even sure there is such a thing as "uninsured account" in US, or if there are, why would anyone use such a bank. https://www.fdic.gov/ It's a simple equation to grok: if utility X is only available in a digitized form on a controlled and centralized platform, then that utility is subject to central controls. And as we see, these control mechanisms will…

I guess it all depends on how it's implemented and what the censorship policy is. If it's implemented with a "everyone, including the homeless, felons and racists gets access" mindset then there isn't much concern. If it's implemented with a "having access is a privilege not a right" mindset, it's different. USPS has to service everyone, even those where they don't make any money with. If this FDIC thing is more like…

USPS only services people who have a residence or pay a fee to have a box. Homeless people require a special approval to receive mail. So USPS does not have to service everyone, but at least they can’t ban people based on mail content.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#530

Post by guerrilla »

cabirum wrote: post #385

Why, when an app is "suspended", Play Store shows 404 as if it never existed? Can't Google display the app page with some status banner and a reason for suspension while disabling install button, or allow installing last known "approved" version?

It's how they implement the memory hole.
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