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Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

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Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#511

Post by mysterydip »

Arathorn wrote: post #472
Arathorn wrote: post #3

So we got notified by the developer console at 21:45 UTC that the app had been suspended, but still haven’t had an email to explain why - it’s 02:24 now. Our assumption that this is due to someone reporting abusive content in Matrix to Google, and Element catching the blame — although this is currently speculation. To be clear: Element is a Matrix client just as Chrome is a Web browser, and just as it’s possible to v…

We received a generic update at 05:31 UTC confirming that the app had been suspended due to abusive content (Sexual Content and Profanity: https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ... ); we're following up to explain how Matrix and Element works and get this resolved.

Could this be related to all the WSB shenanigans going on? Banning their chat groups makes them move to another, repeat?

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#512

Post by pmlnr »

kreeben wrote: post #506
pmlnr wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is insane. This jeopardizes every email, xmpp, matrix, etc; basically any 3rd party application.

All web browsers that are not Chrome, beware. You're next.

Those might be the exceptions, at least for now. Ever since Firefox's crusade against IE the majority of people seem to still know there are different ~programs~ apps to access the internet with. As long as Chrome is not the default in the overwhelming amount of the operating systems, this might even stay like this, which is why I'm extremely unhappy that Android ships with Chrome these days and not with a thin gui on top of the system webview, like it used to.

EDIT: this ties in to the conversation I had on different platform recently, that it's getting arduous to make people understand that an app is not necessarily the same as the system behind it. Choosing an email client used to be a thing (Thunderbird, The Bat!, Outlook Express, mutt, etc; to name some across contrasting needs) not even too long ago. I despise that we came to a world where even the tech moderation fails to understand an app != protocol.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#513

Post by znpy »

kreeben wrote: post #506
pmlnr wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is insane. This jeopardizes every email, xmpp, matrix, etc; basically any 3rd party application.

All web browsers that are not Chrome, beware. You're next.

I wonder why this hasn't been escalated to an anti-trust case yet.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#514

Post by pmlnr »

chithanh wrote: post #499
walrus01 wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that can be the full rationale behind whatever got it removed, if that were the case, they'd absolutely have removed Signal quite some time ago.

Signal can at least in principle censor user content, because they control both server and clients. (And they do, for example you can "delete" your messages that are stored on other clients.) With Matrix you have the choice to use whatever server or client you like, which makes it difficult to censor.

So in this regards, Matrix is no different from email. Should it be expected that the play store will ban email clients?

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#515

Post by onebot »

One take away that this has on me, is that with Google and Apple controlling content on mobile phones, it might be impossible to have a truly decentralized application. I believe that Apple should be required to allow 3rd party installs if the user so chooses. If there is an example of monopolistic behaviour this is one for sure.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#516

Post by monadic3 »

ath92 wrote: post #468
jgtrosh wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://fosdem.org/2021/about/sponsors/#google Uh oh

It's almost as if Google is not one person but consists of many people with different opinions/interests

Google is just Larry and Moe pullin' a fast one on Curly.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#517

Post by rglullis »

o-__-o wrote: post #445
est31 wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your users still benefit from less centralization. The main matrix.org instance might ban them for whatever reason, but their access to your internal server is not touched. It's different if all of you used Signal or Discord and their account got banned e.g. for using an alternative client.

Signal is open source you can run your own non-federated signal server. You can use a custom signal client against the federated network too. https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7vq4k/thousands-of-users-un...

Signal Server has not seen updates for over 9 months. Moxie openly states that is not part of Signal's core values to support federation in the network.

IOW, even though they say they don't want to control your conversation, they do want you in their hands.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#518

Post by AmericanChopper »

throwdbaaway wrote: post #476
AmericanChopper wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at any legislation that’s been proposed to address this, in the EU or anywhere else, it hasn’t been anything that’s going to make the situation any better. Lots of governments around the world are very upset that these cartels have the ability to restrict people’s access to the internet without any oversight or due process. But that’s not because they think it’s harmful for peoples access to these service…

Exactly. If a chat service is banned in some authoritarian countries, that's the strongest signal that it is indeed secure.

Widely recognized “authoritarian” countries are hardly the issue here. Western democracies have been trying to usurp this power from the tech cartels for quite a while now. “Hate speech” laws have been successfully normalized in many countries already. The latest push has been to legally regulate “misinformation”. The EU has already started the process of establishing a government authority to regulate the truth. Then again, they’ve been trying to ban E2EE for years as well, so perhaps authoritarianism is the issue...

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#519

Post by pmlnr »

echelon wrote: post #359
Arathorn wrote: post #3

So we got notified by the developer console at 21:45 UTC that the app had been suspended, but still haven’t had an email to explain why - it’s 02:24 now. Our assumption that this is due to someone reporting abusive content in Matrix to Google, and Element catching the blame — although this is currently speculation. To be clear: Element is a Matrix client just as Chrome is a Web browser, and just as it’s possible to v…

Deplatforming is the story of the year. If we're not careful, they'll come for our individual rights next. Be it companies or the government. We need to remain vigilant and develop distributed platforms. We also need to demand that the government takes control away from corporate interests. This shouldn't happen.

> We need to remain vigilant and develop distributed platforms

They are there already. Matrix, XMPP, email, activitypub based systems, (secure) scuttlebutt, IPFS, and so on.

This is more a people and their conformist attitude problem, like "eh, my friends use X, I'm too lazy to convince them otherwise", "but everyone is on Y, I'm not willing to be the odd one out on Z", and so on.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#520

Post by GlitchMr »

yorwba wrote: post #492
GlitchMr wrote: post #439

I believe that removal of Element from Google Play Store is a violation of EU regulation 2019/1150. Element has legal entities in Britain (which is affected by Brexit but has similar law) and France. Google is LEGALLY required to provide a justification for removal 30 days before application removal. Anyway, you may try contacting Google using EU regulation 2019/1150 violation procedure, see https://support.google.co…

> Google is LEGALLY required to provide a justification for removal 30 days before application removal. You mean this? 2. Where a provider of online intermediation services decides to terminate the provision of the whole of its online intermediation services to a given business user, it shall provide the business user concerned, at least 30 days prior to the termination taking effect, with a statement of reasons for…

Hm, yeah, I think you are right here.

That said, the reason for removal provided by Google seems to be nonsensical ("abusive content somewhere on Matrix", really?), so mediation should be effective here. This particular reason easily applies to an application like Google Chrome, and EU regulation 2019/1150 requires differential treatment to be documented, which I don't think it is in this case.

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