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U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

bloomberg.com

221–230 of 252 posts

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#221
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this basically discrimination? Job is job. Even if you are 13 years old your should be paid the same for similar results. Instead of subsiding via parents. This make it better for those unlucky youth to help themselves.

Wait, parents shouldn’t subsidize their kids?! As soon as my kid can get a part-time job as a teenager I should totally cut them off? That does sound tempting...

The ones being subsidized are the kids' employers, not the kids.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#222
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you're saying that the poor whites are the one pushing the systematic racism view of the problem. Since it seems clear to me that that's not the case, I am confused by this view. Am I misunderstanding what you're saying? Edit: Since this got downvoted already, I'll try to clarify? I'm confused by what appears to be the opinion of the poster and asking for clarification so that I can better understand t…

I am definitely not saying that poor whites are the ones pushing the notion of race over class. I’m saying they’ve been taught by media to view things in terms of race rather than class. Race has been used by the ruling class to stifle economic justice. It’s been used to divide the lower class.

Thank you for the clarification. That makes much more sense.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#223
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It is possible to have very high inequality and [pick one] comfortable/uncomfortable poor people. How much someone has relative to their neighbour doesn't control their quality of life.

Yes, exactly. What matters is do you have the resources to comfortably meet your needs or not. It does not matter if some people have many times more resources than you, that does not affect your situation. You might be envious, but that's neither here nor there really in your day to day quality of life.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll notice that the rise in media reporting on systematic racism correlates strongly with the rise in discussions about class difference, industry trends, globalization, etc. The latter was Bernie Sander's platform before he was "challenged" by BLM during the 2016 primary. Not to imply that Sanders didn't previously support BLM, but he rhetoric changed after that. It was clear to me that Sanders thought the primar…

My mind is blown. But I'm an anticonspiracy theorist. What can explain why race differences move us so much more than class?

Class solidarity is non-existent in the US. Racial issues are much more visible. Poverty tends to be chronic and society to this day attempts to dismiss it as laziness or personal failure on the part of the individual, there isn't really anywhere for a flashpoint to happen. Incidents like George Floyd's murder act as a nexus around which debate, protests, and change can form.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inequality is not a bad thing. It's actually necessary to have inequality of outcomes otherwise you have no incentives for improvement. An example of a society with very low inequality is old-school communism where most people are equally poor - it's clearly not a good thing. What is bad is extreme inequality where a lot of people are in poverty. I think most people would agree that poverty is a bad thing that we sho…

I've been thinking about this a lot this past decade or so, and it is an interesting question. One thought I've had is that a perception (real or not) of inequality is baked into our species as being bad, particularly when it gets extreme. Why might that be? Well, if my neighbor generally has more resources than me, it's usually not that big of a deal. You maybe have more or better food, or some nicer things, but if…

Yeah, that's a good point about power.

You could probably go further and tie some of that discomfort into competition for mates. If my neighbor had more than me, I might start to worry that he will outcompete me in the market for a mate. I'm not sure this matters as much today - but one can imagine it did for most of human history when communities were much smaller and the majority of men died without leaving offspring behind.

It's an interesting idea, I don't know if there is something to it or not. It's hard to discuss anything involving gender roles these days.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Frankly I'm surprised the effect was so small Only because of the moratorium on evictions, which is deferring a lot of financial pain till later, and thereby making today's numbers look a lot better than they are. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-10/u-s-house...

Why would evictions impact the poverty rate? Isn't it just the share of people who fall under a certain level of income, without directly accounting for things like housing insecurity?

I can tell you that for myself, being homeless made keeping my job difficult for a hundred reasons. On top of that, it drove me into a deep depressive episode, which impacts my ability to work severely, and I turned to drug use in a big way, which obviously lead to my situation becoming even more difficult.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#227
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because food and shelter cost nearly 100% of people’s incomes. If the cost of living is equal or greater than your income, saving is impossible.

Both those variables (cost of living and income) are far from fixed. Cost of living can be reduced by removing unnecessary expenses or selecting cheaper options while income can be increased by working more or improving oneself. But you need to want to have those savings. Most of the people I know living day to day spend beyond their means (like buying the BMW instead of the reliable Honda) or waste their time watchi…

> waste their time watching tv, drinking with friends or getting high.

How much time per week would you find acceptable to spend on these activities? I refuse to believe that number is "0 hours", that would be an inhuman (without an 'e') expectation.

Time to decompress is super important, and frankly, it is the very essence of living. It is not at all a waste of time - it's their time anyways, who are you to judge? To anyone reading this: The attitude displayed above is toxic and actively harmful. Please ignore what they've said; you can be successful AND drink with friends or get high, even a lot.

Balance is important, but you are not obliged to work on self-improvement at all times (or at ANY TIME - full stop). This insinuation smacks of victim blaming and a superiority complex. The concept that you're 'wasting time' by spending it enjoying yourself is absolutely absurd, insidious, offensive, and IMO just plain mean.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#228
post #132
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that definition is susceptible to defining the "necessities for living" in ways that underestimate poverty. How do you define what's the standard of living? As of 2021 I'd imagine that several necessities for interacting with society such as internet access and potentially even mobile access would not be universally viewed as required to be above the poverty line. Similarly while home ownership is probably no…

Wait, is mobile data access a basic right now? I am living very comfortably but never got a mobile data plan. I find them too expensive for what they are. YMMV.

Either mobile data access or internet access should be, yes. You need one of those to access the job market today (among other critical services). Smartphones have become so cheap that they are most people (especially those in lower socioeconomic brackets) only computing device, and having a phone number is also a prerequisite for society, so mobile data access is the common way to gain internet access for a large swathe of society.

This is a global phenomenon too (and even more so in other countries).

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really you just have to frame it as such. There is a distinction here, race issues tend to deal with the interface between citizens and the government (police among other things) where class issues tend to deal with the interface between corporations and the government. This is a gross oversimplification, but I think the takeaway is it's ok to have spaces for both discussions. I'd also add that both discussions are h…

There is a resistance from any movement, when they have the national attention, and another movement speaks up. It seems there is a perception that the public can only care about one thing at a time. My guess is that any attempt to reframe away from race, towards social class, would be strongly opposed by key interests. That makes it very difficult to get into the conversation, and creates infighting between marginal…

That's a good point. I suspect maybe we're overthinking things a bit. Most movements that enter the spotlight have spent a good amount of time growing behind the scenes beforehand. We can push for class reform without framing it as reframing race issues and wait for its time in the spotlight later.

Re: U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 50 Years

#230
post #210
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is the widely accepted concept of an ally. You could be one. You'll be a second-class citizen. You'll have to supplicate for your place. For the 'space you take up' as they like to say. You'll need to keep up with the latest woke thinking on TikTok and Twitter, so you know how you're expected to think, believe, feel, speak, and act, in order to keep your probationary status as an ally. And it'll always be proba…

This comment wouldn't read much different if you had included the phrase "white genocide" somewhere. I recommend you consider from where these prejudices are sourced.

I don’t know what white genocide is, much less how it relates to anything I wrote. What you think you read probably isn’t what I thought I wrote. I was dryly lamenting the options available to progressives who are uncomfortable with the theory and praxis of the kiddies these days.

My prejudices, if you insist on playing that card, come from listening carefully to exactly the people who demand I shut up and listen. I actually go to great lengths to understand their point of view. Before I judge them.

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