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Agent fired from literary agency for using Parler and Gab

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Re: Agent fired from literary agency for using Parler and Gab

#531
post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they are not positing they _only_ prior on the left are doing it. Militant left is as dangerous as militant right. The problem is not the side of the political spectrum but the approach to dealing with opponents.

> Militant left is as dangerous as militant right. Yeah... The terrible dangers of universal healthcare and proportional taxes...

Promoting universal healthcare and proportional taxes isn't dangerous at all. Neither is promoting freedom of speech and healthy laws for small businesses.

It get dangerous when either side decides that anything standing in the way (in their opinion) of these ideals are "other", and that the "others" are so evil they are simply inhuman, and must be quashed by all means necessary.

This pattern repeats in history many, many times. And lots of people are nervous that the beginning of that pattern is starting to play out in the modern West.

Re: Agent fired from literary agency for using Parler and Gab

#532
post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First, the crosses on gov't buildings are specific to Bavaria. As the USA, Germany has a strong federal constitution which allows the states some lee-way. Furthermore the German Constitutional Court has ruled crosses in schools must be removed if parents object, a ruling that was partially overruled by the ECHR. That's true in theory, but the Supreme Court has taken upon itself to impose uniform standards for the w…

>That's true in theory, but the Supreme Court has taken upon itself to impose uniform standards for the whole nation. As I recall, the German Constitutional Court upheld the practice in general, reasoning that it was an expression of Germany's heritage as a Christian nation. It then balanced that principle against the potential burden on religious minorities, to fashion that compromise. It's more difficult and I real…

> The salient point that the ECHR ruling overrode the German Constitutional Court in that regard. If its ruling would still stand, it would overrule Bavarian legislation.

Which ECHR ruling are you referring to? My understanding of the ECHR precedent on this is that displaying a cross in schools is permissible under the 2011 Lautsi decision: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lautsi_v._Italy

> It granted that, "by prescribing the presence of crucifixes in State-schools classrooms – a sign which, whether or not it is accorded in addition a secular symbolic value, undoubtedly refers to Christianity – the regulations confer on the country's majority religion preponderant visibility in the school environment." But it declared: "That is not in itself sufficient, however, to denote a process of indoctrination on the respondent State's part and establish a breach of the requirements of Article 2 of Protocol No. 1". It added that "a crucifix on a wall is an essentially passive symbol and ... cannot be deemed to have an influence on pupils comparable to that of didactic speech or participation in religious activities".

> Confusing, as your nation's claim seems to be "In God we trust" if I am not wrong? For a country that claims separation of church and state, that's pretty Christian, in fact I wonder what US atheists have to say about that.

I'm pretty sure American Christians would happily take "in God we trust" off the currency in return for religious education in public schools, as is the case in the UK, Germany, Spain and Italy.

> I'd like to point out the following: Germany has - contrary to how US Americans both from the left and right use it as a space for projection - traditionally been a socially conservative country, one of the more conservative ones in Western Europe

I'm aware of that. My wife lived in Germany for a while. That's why I'm using Germany as an example, to illustrate how another socially conservative democracy works. The United States is even more conservative, more comparable to Poland or Turkey than Germany.

> - gay marriage

The German Constitutional Court decision on same-sex marriage, like the abortion decision, was precisely the opposite of what happened in the U.S. In the case of same-sex marriage, the Bundestag legalized it (over Merkel's objection). The Constitutional Court then held that the Constitution allowed for legalization of same-sex marriage. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/new-german-gay-partnership-l.... In the U.S., it was the opposite. The Supreme Court ruled that the Constitution required legalization of same-sex marriage.

> - disallowing the cross in schools (as mentioned, overturned by the ECHR)

The mildness of the German Constitutional Court decision illustrates what I'm talking about. Germany required schools to remove the cross if someone complained. In the United States, the Supreme Court eliminated religion from schools completely, in a blanket fashion. (And it happened 70 years ago!) American public schools can't even offer religious instruction, while German schools are required to offer it (unless the parent opts out).

- giving up the Mark for the Euro

Again, this was a scenario where the German Constitutional Court deferred to the legislature.

> I can't believe that the US Supreme Court has not sided with conservatives at times.

On social issues, it consistently sides with liberals. This is due to the dynamics of the legal profession, where the conservatives tend to be what people call "coastal elites." They are economically conservative, but often relatively liberal socially. For example, while abortion remains technically illegal in Germany, I count only 3 votes to overturn Roe v. Wade (which would not make abortion illegal, but simply allow Americans to adopt an abortion law like Germany or France).

> The difference in Germany is that the political role of the Constitutional Court is widely accepted and politicians handle the issue responsibly. Bashing of the court system because of decisions that go against own beliefs is rare and frowned upon.

How much of that comes from the fact that the German Constitutional Court tends to be deferential to the society's conservatism?

Re: Agent fired from literary agency for using Parler and Gab

#533
post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could still result in a mob piling on them, which is exactly the behaviour they're arguing against...

Correct. I know at least one of the authors who was behaving horribly has severe depression. I don't care how horrible their behavior was, I'm not going to potentially sick an unknown internet mob on a person with suicidal tendencies.

Ah yes, they may want to chop off my head... but I would never tell them this is wrong.

Re: Agent fired from literary agency for using Parler and Gab

#534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a base, mob instinct that has caused riots, factionalism, witch hunts and genocide all throughout human history This is it. In the last 10 years or so mob instinct has shown up in many ways - in looting stores, in doxing people and cancelling people who say the wrong things, in trying to overthrow governments, or just simple pile-ons. In part this has been fanned by big tech, but not entirely The trick is tack…

I think trying to stop what causes mobs can be noble but will be done in vain, validate people’s ideas since they are now being blocked and it also has the ability to be abused. Media sites spent months blocking, banning, demonetizing, and posting disputes about election fraud but none the less there were still riots at the capital building. I like to think of all these websites as a search engine and so will use Goo…

I'm thinking more tackling the causes that feeds people into mobs, the need of people to effectively wear gang shirts because of the lack of compartmentalisation of communication caused by non-anonymous online conversations

Re: Agent fired from literary agency for using Parler and Gab

#535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a clear difference between racism and acknowledging white privilege. White privilege simple describes one way in which racism manifests itself. If you can't tell the difference between a KKK member and someone says that people with white names getting called back for job interviews more than people with black names is white privilege then you are willfully ignorant. It is not racist to say that someone benef…

I'm fairly educated on these things, and I'm a racial minority married to a white woman with mixed kids, and I'm still not sure I understand what people mean when they refer to "white privilege." I get that there is a distinct cultural bias against Black people (what people call "anti-Blackness"). Living in the south this was quite apparent to me. This is structural in nature, and quite distinct from normal majority/…

I agree with your third paragraph about the conceptual error. I think there are subtleties to the concept and racism is manifested differently. I've heard Muslim and Arab people talk about their experiences with racism and I believe them but they don't complain of the same things that happen to black people.

And yes I chose the kkk member as an obviously racist person but my point was that pointing out white privilege is just not racist.

Re: Agent fired from literary agency for using Parler and Gab

#536
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no chance they would have quit were there no hubub about it. Zero. They quit likely because they are in a rep-based business and their boss is stained. The 'mass outrage' is to some extent, outrage on them by virtue of trickle down or association. The public outrage adds emotional momentum to it. That the woman did something slightly questionable makes it one of the better examples of cancel culture, because…

What was the questionable decision?

Taking a snap of a worker on the train eating their sandwich an posting to Twitter was obviously a questionable thing to do at minimum.

Re: Agent fired from literary agency for using Parler and Gab

#537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fairly educated on these things, and I'm a racial minority married to a white woman with mixed kids, and I'm still not sure I understand what people mean when they refer to "white privilege." I get that there is a distinct cultural bias against Black people (what people call "anti-Blackness"). Living in the south this was quite apparent to me. This is structural in nature, and quite distinct from normal majority/…

I can describe it. I'm Brazilian, very white, green eyes, brown hair that was lighter when I was younger. About 30 years ago (wow!), in my late teens I organized a party on a house my aunt recently bought to become her medical practice. We had lots of drinks, some drugs, a DJ, live music and some guests walking over the roof of neighboring houses. Police got called. When they saw me, young and privileged, they wanted…

Is that "white privilege?" From personal experience, I don't think police treat upper middle class asian kids any differently than that. (But I bet it would be different for upper middle class Black people.)

Statistically, and adjusted for age (which is really important because there is quite a big difference in median age between racial groups in the U.S.) asians are actually less likely to get shot by the police than whites. Latinos are about the same/a little bit more likely. Black people are twice as likely to get shot by the police.

Re: Agent fired from literary agency for using Parler and Gab

#538
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, most of the world's best thinkers would disagree, to the point wherein they had to get together to make a public point that 'cancel culture exists and is a problem' [1] Which is of course, not to say that perpetuation of false victimhood doesn't happen, nor that some people should not be cancelled. But we see both of those things happen all the time. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Letter_on_Justice_and_Ope…

I fully agree cancel culture exists, and is taken too far in plenty of circumstances. I also fully believe that it is a term that's abused to the point of losing all meaning - a bit like "fake news" became just "facts inconvenient to me". Everyone facing consequences for their shitty actions - including Donald Trump's impeachment trial is being dubbed "cancel culture" by those facing those consequences. Do I believe…

Ok, yes - except that with Rowling it's 100% cancel culture - and it has to stop, now.

Rowling's views are not 'dated' (that's your opinion) - they are thought out, and reasonable. They are controversial, possibly.

Of course, nobody has to buy her books. It's a little infantile, but it's fine. I don't.

The issue is not 'people not buying her books' - the issue is that people are trying to suppress and silence her, and stop the publication of her books & material.

It's 100% 'cancel culture' for groups to organize and vent their petty, minority opinions towards instilling fear in publishers, distributors, points-of-sale, and pressure other groups (i.e. Hollywood, Netflix) to suppress the voices of those they disagree with.

That is exactly cancel culture - and it's why so many of those luminary thinkers had to take out a page in Harper's.

If we were allowed to do anonymous voting on these things it would be snuffed out immediately, the antagonizing base is very small.

Re: Agent fired from literary agency for using Parler and Gab

#539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. I know at least one of the authors who was behaving horribly has severe depression. I don't care how horrible their behavior was, I'm not going to potentially sick an unknown internet mob on a person with suicidal tendencies.

Ah yes, they may want to chop off my head... but I would never tell them this is wrong.

I am 100% fine with telling them this is wrong. I'm quite vocal about this being wrong.

But I am not okay with unleashing random internet people on a mentally ill person, which could easily spiral into a mob that involves death threats, doxing of personal info, etc. Hell, I'm not okay doing that to a mentally healthy person.

Re: Agent fired from literary agency for using Parler and Gab

#540
post #290

The most deadliest thing about Tech companies is how massive they are and going about their merry things while little ants like us get squished left and right. Also the whole cancel culture is crazy since it’s so trigger happy. In many ways it feels like a witch hunt. Someone says something, the crowd follows (without much evidence) and makes a ton of noise on social media. The companies see a hit on their brand and…

> Also the whole cancel culture is crazy since it’s so trigger happy. I have given this a great deal of thought and I'm still torn on what to believe. On one hand, everyone wants to be judge, jury, and executioner. This means that the power the state has to determine these things is eroded. Probably as a result of the general loss of trust in institutions. On the other hand, the United States specifically has a long…

There certainly wasn't this hysteria about cancel culture when it was solely the tool of large, well-funded conservative and religious organisations - Mothers Against Dungeons & Dragons is the example that comes to mind for me immediately from when I was younger.

Now that just any old pleb can express an opinion on the actions and comments of their betters it seems that collective expressions of disapproval with the intent of exerting power is a bad thing!

"Cancelling" is a boycott in the marketplace of ideas. The left and the right should find something to appeal to them there!

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