Agent fired from literary agency for using Parler and Gab • Hacker News Board

Re: Agent fired from literary agency for using Parler and Gab

#511

Post by yellowapple » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 7:02 PM UTC

cercatrova wrote: post #426

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the horseshoe theory works. The critical factor is authoritarianism. Which is a grown-up word for bullying and narcissism. Authoritarians are invariably toxic damaged people who are full of rage and are looking for a target to make themselves feel better. Sometimes they end up on the left. Sometimes they end up on the right. Sometimes they end up in management or venture capital. Same issues, same dynam…

You're just redescribing the horseshoe theory. The X axis is political leaning, the Y axis is level of authoritarianism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory

Horseshoe theory implies (if not explies, if that's a word) that going far left or far right automatically entails becoming authoritarian, and that they converge as you go farther "left" or "right". That's pretty demonstrably false, and even a two-dimensional political compass (let alone one with more axes) does a much better job of describing actual political stances than a horseshoe can. Authoritarianism v. libertarianism and socialism v. capitalism are separate and independent axes, and societies have existed across the whole gamut, corner-to-corner-to-corner-to-corner and everything in between.

Re: Agent fired from literary agency for using Parler and Gab

#512

Post by deanCommie » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 7:06 PM UTC

jariel wrote: post #36

deanCommie wrote: post #30

[flagged]

Well, most of the world's best thinkers would disagree, to the point wherein they had to get together to make a public point that 'cancel culture exists and is a problem' [1] Which is of course, not to say that perpetuation of false victimhood doesn't happen, nor that some people should not be cancelled. But we see both of those things happen all the time. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Letter_on_Justice_and_Ope…

I fully agree cancel culture exists, and is taken too far in plenty of circumstances.

I also fully believe that it is a term that's abused to the point of losing all meaning - a bit like "fake news" became just "facts inconvenient to me".

Everyone facing consequences for their shitty actions - including Donald Trump's impeachment trial is being dubbed "cancel culture" by those facing those consequences.

Do I believe people should be fired for tweets they made a decade ago as a teenager? No.

Do I believe that JK Rowling (one of the signees) should lose fans and book sales because those fans don't like her outdated and problematic views on trans people?

Well actually that's the beauty - it doesn't matter what I think. It matters what her fans think, and they think it's fair. That's consequences. That's not cancel culture.

Re: Agent fired from literary agency for using Parler and Gab

#513

Post by cercatrova » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 7:08 PM UTC

yellowapple wrote: post #511

cercatrova wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're just redescribing the horseshoe theory. The X axis is political leaning, the Y axis is level of authoritarianism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory

Horseshoe theory implies (if not explies, if that's a word) that going far left or far right automatically entails becoming authoritarian, and that they converge as you go farther "left" or "right". That's pretty demonstrably false, and even a two-dimensional political compass (let alone one with more axes) does a much better job of describing actual political stances than a horseshoe can. Authoritarianism v. liberta…

I always viewed it as descriptive and not prescriptive, so I wouldn't say it implies movement across the authoritarian axis just by moving more right or left.

Re: Agent fired from literary agency for using Parler and Gab

#514

Post by tptacek » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 7:08 PM UTC

kls wrote: post #505

enkid wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really messed up. I have doubts about what other people say, but I try to reserve judgement about those things. When them make claims that I haven't seen any evidence for, I ask for their evidence so I can understand where they are coming from, but make my own assessment about the truth. I am not badgering anyone, but I refuse to let people make claims without evidence, if it is 1.) it's a statement of fact,…

Funny I have a new red flag word, it used to be on the internet when you saw the first reference to someone being a Nazi you knew to start taking a critical look at what the accuser was saying but we have invented so many of them now to try to create one word labels to dismiss other peoples positions, stuff like gaslighting, dog whistling now I have to look for sea lioning. What these all have in common is they try t…

Literally any term describing a process argument that intends to end a debate will eventually be abused, because message board nerds† love power-ups; in fact, a good many of them, upon learning a new mic-drop argument ("gaslighting!", "begging the question!", "ad hominem!", "tu quoque!") will hide up in the corners waiting for someone to unwittingly reveal a susceptible argument, so they can deploy their new toy on them, like the person who got the super laser-gun thingy in Quake for the first time.

But that only gets you part of the way to understanding. These arguments are & always will be abused. But: just because something is regularly abused doesn't mean there's no validity to it. And of course, pointing out that these arguments are abused is itself a kind of Quake laser cannon argument.

Ultimately, you just have to decide yourself based on context cues whether an argument is valid.

† Obviously, I am one myself

Re: Agent fired from literary agency for using Parler and Gab

#515

Post by rayiner » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 7:08 PM UTC

srtjstjsj wrote: post #343

rayiner wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was the questionable decision?

Joining a website where nasty people make comments. Imagine if every redditor was fired or or had their employees quit because of the absolutely horrific things some other users post there.

You know, there are people who think HN is one of those websites. Like, squarely in the left-wing (I'm not saying mainstream liberals think that), but it's definitely a thing.

Re: Agent fired from literary agency for using Parler and Gab

#516

Post by henrikschroder » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 7:08 PM UTC

pepperspray wrote: post #283

henrikschroder wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The phenomenon is called "purity spiral", and it's absolutely maddening. Here's a good article on it: https://unherd.com/2020/01/cast-out-how-knitting-fell-into-a...

There's no winning in these situations. Sooner or later they will implode into smaller groups and won't have much power. Look at the different Christian sects that came to be over minor theological differences.

The only way to win is not to play.

Re: Agent fired from literary agency for using Parler and Gab

#517

Post by boplicity » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 7:09 PM UTC

srtjstjsj wrote: post #334

boplicity wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The term "cancel culture" is extremely ironic. The implication of the term is that people should not be "cancelled" for expressing their views. And yet, backing out of a book deal, for example, is an expression of a view. In practice, the term is used to de-legitimize some opinions, while upholding others. The term "cancel culture" is cancel culture.

This is a bad take, the wrong side of "paradox of tolerance". Firing/boycotting someone for doing nothing wrong, not even for something "offensive", but just for appearing to have some observable qualities vaguely similar to people who do offensive things, is unjustifiable.

>Firing/boycotting someone for doing nothing wrong, not even for something "offensive"

Just an observation: You are "cancelling" the opinions of those who do the "cancelling." In terms of the OP, you may or may not agree with the opinion of the person who did the firing, but it was based on someone being offended. Whether or not that offense was justified, or a good enough reason to fire someone, is a different question.

Re: Agent fired from literary agency for using Parler and Gab

#518

Post by tomcam » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 7:12 PM UTC

boomboomsubban wrote: post #501

tomcam wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I judge this particular article as poorly sourced for the same reason you do. I do not judge the article for the religion of the publisher. I never read Newsweek. I thought it was long gone. But now that I know it’s there, I shall continue to judge its merits based on what they publish, not what the supposed political beliefs of the owner or staff happen to be.

Really? You seemed pretty willing to defend a Christian (cult?) publisher by completely ignoring the faults of the article to attack criticism based on their religion. Knowing if a publisher has a clear incentive can help determine how accurate and well-sourced their claim is.

You seem to be hallucinating. I cannot find anything I said defending the publisher. Perhaps you were responding to another post.

I have upvoted both of your posts that seem to be responding to me, because I much prefer a downvote and discourse to being down voted without comment.

Re: Agent fired from literary agency for using Parler and Gab

#519

Post by henrikschroder » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 7:13 PM UTC

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #345

henrikschroder wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The phenomenon is called "purity spiral", and it's absolutely maddening. Here's a good article on it: https://unherd.com/2020/01/cast-out-how-knitting-fell-into-a...

I very vividly experienced this in a communist society, and later in a religious society. It is always a safe bet to praise G-d or Dear Leader a little more than customary. No one will dare to challenge you. And after a short while this becomes a new average and a minimum requirement.

For a humorous example of this, there's the movie Office Space, and the fight over the number of pieces of flair that Joanna is wearing. She wears 15 pieces of flair, the company required minimum, compared to the boss' favourite, Brian, who wears 37 pieces of flair.

Re: Agent fired from literary agency for using Parler and Gab

#520

Post by mellosouls » Wed, Jan 27, 2021, 7:18 PM UTC

barbacoa wrote: post #492

opheliate wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: Could you point to some examples of Wikipedia's "hideous" left-wing bias? Not trying to catch you out, I've just personally always been surprised by how neutral Wikipedia's political articles tend to be when I've read them, and I'd like to challenge my own perception here.

https://thecritic.co.uk/the-left-wing-bias-of-wikipedia/

Thanks for that; a very thorough overview I hadn't read and it saves me going through wikipedia to find some examples for the (reasonable) request in response to my previous comment.

I should point out that there are plenty of editors who lean left that make genuine attempts to keep it out of their editing and are as frustrated as me about those who don't; I genuinely suspect it is an editor-demographics numbers thing that causes the imbalance as much as anything, as previously stated.