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Split keyboards and how to build them

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Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#231

Post by Syzygies »

ashkankiani wrote: post #168
piinecone wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn’t agree more. I’ve been using a Kinesis Advantage and a Mistel Barocco (when traveling) for years. I recently switched to the Moonlander and I love it. Coming from the Kinesis Advantage the adaptation period is short, and since the moonlander is so easy to program I didn’t really have to adjust my habits. If anything, I’m trying to learn that I can use its programmability to my advantage to make my life easi…

Why would you switch to the moonlander from the Kinesis? The curved design of the kinesis is way better for reducing strain than the flat style of the moonlander/ergodox. If the only factor is programmability, then I think that factor may be overexaggerated in how important it is. Know that anyone who wants to riposte that last point should realize that I'm not a novice to making my own keyboards or programming them.…

I gave up on three Kinesis Advantage keyboards in 2006, after they all started dropping key-up events on modifier keys. I then took one apart. Primitive, dated USB hardware, and nothing about the company read that they were eager to modernize. (The ergo keyboard market abounds with never-updated designs.)

Has there been a generational improvement in their circuit quality?

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#232

Post by Syzygies »

After a decade-long respite from three flaky Kinesis Advantage keyboards (they must have modernized by now) and a several year foray into the Dvorak layout, I went way down the mechanical keyboard rabbit hole last year.

After some beginner choices (Obinslab Anne 2 Pro), I quickly rejected any keyboard that didn't support QMK firmware. My configuration has two sets of nine "tap/hold" keys (UIO JKL M,. and their mirrors) for modifier keys and custom layers. My hands hardly move, which for my particular physical health seems more important than their position on my desk, and more important than the QWERTY - Dvorak question.

My favorite mechanical keyboards had been the GergoPlex, ErgoDox EZ, Planck EZ, and a KBDFans DZ60. Then I purchased a Leopold FC660C and Hasu's replacement QMK controller.

I like Topre switches so much more than any mechanical switch I've tried, that I can't bring myself to use any other keyboard. Topre switches are the obsession killer. You can't swap them, you can't post pictures on Reddit of your gaudy new keycaps, all you can do is customize your QMK configuration.

It's a bit like the shaving rabbit hole. What sticks, if one returns to expensive Gillette cartridges, is the brush and Mitchell's Wool Fat Shaving Soap. No one returns to spray cans.

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#233

Post by Syzygies »

Syzygies wrote: post #232

After a decade-long respite from three flaky Kinesis Advantage keyboards (they must have modernized by now) and a several year foray into the Dvorak layout, I went way down the mechanical keyboard rabbit hole last year. After some beginner choices (Obinslab Anne 2 Pro), I quickly rejected any keyboard that didn't support QMK firmware. My configuration has two sets of nine "tap/hold" keys (UIO JKL M,. and their mirror…

One thought "design pattern" I pay attention to is respecting multiple modes. For example, language learning tends to focus on single-phase progress. In practice, a tourist such as myself, bad at many languages, will study before a trip and hope it all comes together during the trip. One realistically doesn't continue studying during a trip, but one's mind shortens available connections to develop a working facility. This favors committing a radio play to memory, over the staggered recall patterns of single-phase language study. Von Neumann could recall entire books, but in sequence. That's key.

For keyboards, the most novel designs are better at intense coding sessions, but worse at hunt-and-peck finding an arrow key, or muting one's computer in the middle of the night before the dog wakes everyone up. For me, the middle "tap/hold" zone of my Leopold FC660C is perfect for long coding and typing sessions, while the periphery does a great job of supporting casual use.

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#235

Post by flurdy »

soenkeliebau wrote: post #185
Symbiote wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Moonlander (and most of the ones being discussed) is fully programmable, so you can move the keys around as you wish. I have ← ↑ ↓ → in a line on the four lower keys on the right of my ErgoDash. Not having the ⊥ arrangement took a little time to get used to. I considered some fancy QMK (keyboard firmware) hacking to keep the inverted T, and have the key above ↓ change between Z and ↑ depending on the keypress bef…

I've looked at a few Moonlander setups for the keyboard layout that I use on their site [1][2][3] and to my mind the right half is simply missing one column of keys to get a proper cursor key block. Even the lying-L option ─┘ would mean missing the right shift key (which of course should probably be on the thumb block) and getting used to something different. I'm not saying it wouldn't work, but for me being from Ger…

No, you can have a normal ⊥ arrows layout on the right half [1]. I do as I use those keys a lot. Or I can use a navigation layer as others have mentioned.

The magic is the double use of modifiers if tapped or held.

Whilst I personally could see a need for another column if you have a Nordic layout like mine, but that would make it not symmetrical and unnecessary for English layouts.

[1] https://configure.ergodox-ez.com/moonlander/layouts/rOjGj/la...

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#236

Post by the_pwner224 »

johnsoft wrote: post #72
fpgaminer wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read a blog post on Coding Horror back in the mid 2000s about the importance of a good chair. It really opened my eyes and convinced me that, regardless of the cost, an ergonomic working environment is worth every penny. So fast forward about two decades ... and I finally bought my first ergonomic chair... It's stunning how stubborn we can be, even when we know for certain that something is good for us. I don't eve…

I'm in the market for a new chair. Which one did you buy? (Or if you'd rather teach me to fish, how did you decide on one?)

I got the Leap v2 last summer, also from Crandall/BTOD, but ended up giving it to my brother and getting a HermanMiller Embody. It's much more expensive and harder to find used, but when you buy direct from HermanMiller you get a free return period so it's a risk free trial.

To me the Leap was comfortable and wasn't bad, but just didn't feel 100% right. The Embody is just perfect. 100% worth the cost. And the materials/construction also feel much more premium.

There are plenty of reviews on YouTube as well as https://blog.szynalski.com/, but ultimately you can't be sure unless you sit in one yourself - every person will find the fit and comfort to be different. SteelCase Leap v2 & SteelCase Gesture and HM Embody seem to be the top three. HM has a 15% off sale in the summer and end of year.

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#237

Post by UHK2 »

soenkeliebau wrote: post #161
bonchicbongenre wrote: post #99

I recently was gifted -- very, very generously! -- a Moonlander Mark I split, ortholinear keyboard [0] (made by the same company that previously made the Ergodox). It's genuinely fantastic, and I can't ever see myself going back to either a non-split or a non-ortholinear board as my desktop's input. It's a huge improvement ergonomically -- (0) no hunched shoulders, with the halves at shoulder width (1) the ortholinea…

I have looked at that keyboard a lot and am really tempted to splurge, but .. What is putting me of is the missing dedicated cursor keys at the bottom right. I use a layout on my current keyboard that has cursor keys on e,s,d,f with a modifier and use that a lot, but not exclusively.. I have the same issue with the ultimate hacking keyboard and others. Has that bothered you at all, or did you find a layout that works…

You can have the cursor keys where you want on UHK, see the webdemo of the UHK Agent software: http://ultimatehackingkeyboard.github.io/agent/#/keymap/QWR and if you buy the modules you can also have additional actions, without taking your hand off the keyboard, because you do not even need a mouse.

Here is the latest review, from 4:00 could be the most interesting part for you https://blog.sebastian-daschner.com/entries/review-ultimate-...

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#238

Post by Symbiote »

rpiguyshy wrote: post #228

why is there no "typing glove?" some kind of device that is attached to your hand that tracks the minute movement of your fingers, and translates them into keystrokes? the amount of physical movement for each keystroke would be dramatically reduced and so it would be faster as well. even without going this far, wouldnt it be much faster to have a keyboard where there is only one button for each finger, and combinatio…

The closest is probably the Lalboard: https://github.com/JesusFreke/lalboard

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#239

Post by gwenzek »

blindluke wrote: post #170

I wonder, is there a place one can buy a prebuilt 40% keyboard, with keycaps, the full shebang? Split or not, I'd love to have a portable mechanical keyboard to carry around, but I don't have the time nor patience to mess with a kit. Aby suggestions?

littlekeyboards.com in US, splitkb.com in EU

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#240

Post by samatman »

matsemann wrote: post #134
samatman wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I picked a trackball with scroll wheel, which I'll briefly pitch: - It's always in the same place, so reaching the mouse is completely muscle memory - I can put it as close as possible to my keyboard - No elbow motion except to get from keyboard to trackball - Scrolling is a bit more than half of my 'mousing' and is easy, just spin a large wheel clockwise I got one with two buttons, my only regret; Kensington makes o…

> - No elbow motion except to get from keyboard to trackball But it's still some motion. When I hurt my elbow, a "rollermouse" was my savior. It's absolutely no movement of my elbow. My fingers are resting on the keyboard, I move the bar using my thumbs, or if more precision is needed I bring down one index finger. But my palms don't move at all. (Not like their press photos where they have moved their whole hand..)

True, and accessibility is why the long tail of peripherals is so important.

For the home-row supremacists, it would be great to have an ortholinear split-key which has a ThinkPad-style nub, although we could spill a lot of ink about where to put it: in between u-i-j-k would suit me best, other people might want y-u-h-j for the index rather than middle finger— and of course, the left-handed equivalent for those who prefer it, I happen to be left-handed but mouse with my right and wouldn't care to switch.

There's room in the Ergodox layout for one more thumb key, between the grid and the thumb cluster, it would require expanding the classic chassis but that's a small thing. The driver, the custom keys, and an appropriately sensitive joystick, these are not small things! I think one could drill through a corner of four of the switches, to make enough room, without touching the electronics, and mmmmaybe mold a custom housing which is missing a corner, simply rotating appropriately. Making room for the traces and such is completely above my paygrade.

But if Ergodox costs $350 to get to the user, this keyboard would probably end up costing $500 on a good day. It would be a glorious thing, but I wonder about the market for it.

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