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IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

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Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#251

Post by vbezhenar »

jwr wrote: post #187
piokoch wrote: post #14

This smells like some really bold and really ridiculous PR attempt. "Ikea uses about one percent—yes, one percent—of the world's entire commercial wood supply. That amounts to about 17.8 million cubic yards of lumber last year. " [1] I guess they need this PR purchase to appease some eko organization. And this is equally ridiculous. Ikea is making furniture, something people really need. Why they have to explain them…

Well, in terms of carbon in the atmosphere, making furniture from wood actually makes a lot of sense, assuming you use sustainable forestry (replant the same amount or more). That carbon in your furniture isn't going into the air anytime soon, hopefully never.

I run some numbers in the past and I think that going all-in to wood houses and stuff really makes lots of sense. It's not a solution to all CO2 problems, but having lots of wood in the forests AND lots of wood in people houses allows to keep a sizeable chunk of carbon from atmosphere.

It's a shame that wood is not as popular nowadays.

Of course people should regrow two trees for every one cut.

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#253

Post by detritus »

smileybarry wrote: post #248
detritus wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? You'd likely not need IraqWarII levels of commitment - just a few enthusiastically-delivered missives at 1100kph to get the message across. A few loitering drones and a few dozen more missiles might actually be a highly efficient use of resources. I'm not sure where 'intelligence' comes into play here, beyond condescension of an idea you evidently disagree with.

Well, causing a forest fire with a missile is one thing we should avoid.

Why then, just use kinetic/fragmentary projectiles - easy peasy!

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#254

Post by jcims »

glenneroo wrote: post #236
jcims wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure most would support repurposing Tomahawk missiles and MQ-9 Reapers for the protection of the Amazon.

I'm not sure that firing missiles into forests is the most intelligent use of resources...

You just time the operation to minimize risk of wildfires, which is already pretty low in a rainforest.

The only challenge I see is that the folks running the saws and the skidders aren't the ones profiting from the operation. So maybe you take some extra precautions to avoid killing the crew, but destroying the equipment seems like a perfectly acceptable use of resources.

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#255

Post by throwaway0a5e »

piokoch wrote: post #14

This smells like some really bold and really ridiculous PR attempt. "Ikea uses about one percent—yes, one percent—of the world's entire commercial wood supply. That amounts to about 17.8 million cubic yards of lumber last year. " [1] I guess they need this PR purchase to appease some eko organization. And this is equally ridiculous. Ikea is making furniture, something people really need. Why they have to explain them…

>"Ikea uses about one percent—yes, one percent—of the world's entire commercial wood supply. That amounts to about 17.8 million cubic yards of lumber last year.

Yeah, seems a little over the top to me too.

Ikea makes particle board furniture. Particle board is basically glue plus waste products from all the other things that use wood. You might as well complain that the dog food and fertilizer industries uses some % of the world's meat.

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#256

Post by nom »

I never understood why people hate IKEA. Yes it's cheap. Yes it doesn't last a lifetime. Yes it needs a lot of wood. Yes it's highly optimized.

But guess what, IKEA is a business responding to the needs of people. The negatives that are mentioned frequently are merely a symptom of our ever faster developing society. The people who complain are the same ones that just buy cheap crap from china without even thinking about it.

IKEAs ability to produce products that people actually need, at such a scale, is amazing to me. It does what it promises. It's cheap. It fills most people's needs fully. Customer support is perfect. I know in 10 years replacements for their core products will still be available. Their way of innovating the products is genius.

I can't think of any other company that even comes close. Well, maybe LEGO.

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#257

Post by jojobas »

jwr wrote: post #187
piokoch wrote: post #14

This smells like some really bold and really ridiculous PR attempt. "Ikea uses about one percent—yes, one percent—of the world's entire commercial wood supply. That amounts to about 17.8 million cubic yards of lumber last year. " [1] I guess they need this PR purchase to appease some eko organization. And this is equally ridiculous. Ikea is making furniture, something people really need. Why they have to explain them…

Well, in terms of carbon in the atmosphere, making furniture from wood actually makes a lot of sense, assuming you use sustainable forestry (replant the same amount or more). That carbon in your furniture isn't going into the air anytime soon, hopefully never.

Wood rots in landfills. You have to char it to stop that.

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#258

Post by [deleted] »

flarg wrote: post #186
loceng wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because they're fighting the arguably true reality that the majority of their furniture is designed to be disposable, and consumers are generally fine with that. I'd like to be wrong, though until we require companies to be responsible for all costs associated with the full lifecycle of a product so externalized costs are incorporated, we're not going to develop the most sustainable practices.

Seasoned IKEA customer here. They have two types of products, one type is durable and the other is not and it's pretty easy to tell the difference from the price. Desks and bookcases are good examples of the former.

[deleted]

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#259

Post by usrusr »

gandalfian wrote: post #218
usrusr wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but to get a long term net effect we'd have to bury them about as deep as the fossils we are excavating. I dare claim that this won't happen (it would be far cheaper/more efficient to leave those fossils and synthesize something from those trees up here) Sometimes I wonder, as a mind experiment, how close we could get to practical carbon burial with a process based on sinking polymer blocks in the ocean: the spe…

We could turn the trees into furniture and surupticiously spread them out in buildings around the world. Hey wait a minute?

So the missing link would be a second page in the manual where the reverse path from furniture back to flatpack is described? A nightmarish challenge, definitely makes me the Ikea manual guy with the questionmark, ready to phone into the help line.

Re: IKEA buys 11,000 acres of U.S. forest to keep it from being developed

#260

Post by throwaway0a5e »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #204
shafyy wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ikea is making furniture, something people really need. The problem is that, like with clothes, people THINK they need more and newer things all the time because Marketing tells them that they do. I read somewhere (can't find the link right now) that shit tons of clothes and other items are not laying around in warehouses not being sold (due to lockdown) and I don't see people walking around naked in the streets. S…

Well the thing with furniture is that it fills up your place quickly. As apartments get smaller (most countries are in a housing crisis) that pretty much stops people buying furniture they don't need. I only ever buy furniture because I really have a need for it. Not because I think it's cool or anything.

Downsizing creates a market opening for cabinets, shelves, organizers and other things that let you utilize vertical space more efficiently.
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