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I tried to report scientific misconduct. How did it go?

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Re: I tried to report scientific misconduct. How did it go?

#131
post #34

What about Editor's ethics or lack thereof? I got accepted in a Chinese-oriented journal (i.e. most of the Editorial Board were Chinese) - I am not just 'saying' this, I'm saying because the OP mentioned "it's a Chinese thing" over results and datasets, whatever, I digress. On the last revision round, the Editor told me that I was lacking some references, which he promptly send me. Turned out that 6 out 6 of his 'rec…

As others have noted, this is a global problem, not just Chinese.

The version that is more difficult to detect is when a cabal of colleagues agree to push each others' papers in this way. So editor A says "you should really quote authors B, C and D." And somewhere else, editor B is saying "you should really quote authors A, C and D."

Machine learning might be a way to tackle this at scale, by teasing out these associations. Of course, this relies on a degree of transparency. Some journals publish all editors' comments and all revisions of a paper. This is a Good Thing, but humans aren't reading all published research, let alone all the meta data.

If someone with relevant ML skills wants to address this, and fancies starting a project, do get in touch :)

A note on the Chinese insinuations that have been mentioned: As always, it's a bit more complex. There may well be reasons that some states might sponsor or 'encourage' gaming of intellectual institutions. If the world is viewed as a zero-sum game, and the currency is power, this unfortunately seems inevitable. Science tends away from this and towards collaboration, but 'politics' often seems to tend toward competition. I've seen university heads explicitly declare to all staff how they intend to game the national rankings, and nobody bats an eyelid, it's business as usual. It's daft and harmful, and frankly I think it requires hard effort from idealistic grassroots activists to address it. Societal improvements are often won through struggle, they're not given away, they don't happen by incremental evolution.

Re: I tried to report scientific misconduct. How did it go?

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you lowered your bar huh? Who am I to judge, but I would have preferred a story with something more than the game is rigged and that's what I get to play with

The paper was not accepted at that point. He could just denied publication out of spite. I played the odds, and got published, despite doing that. I'm sorry the story ended badly :) and yes - I've lowered the bar, sadly.

I will not judge you. Citation indices are horrible and perpetuate this fraud. I was telling a student of mine yesterday, 10 years ago the game was to get publications in prestigious venues. Now the game is to have a stellar scholar.google.com profile. The two games are perhaps correlated, but the correlation coefficient is not very high.

Re: I tried to report scientific misconduct. How did it go?

#133

> They said, no, "It's a China thing." This needs to stop being an acceptable answer. Not just in academia, but also in politics, in business, in the naming of viral strains, ...

It's tricky. There are huge differences in culture that we don't appreciate. What we think of as ethical and honest doesn't match what that culture thinks of as ethical and honest. And there's no reason for them to think that we're right and they're wrong.

Please do not bring relativism into science. There is no eastern science and western science. I am an Indian, and work very hard to conform to high standards of scruples and ethics. There are asymmetries like paucity of travel opportunities, lab equipment shortages etc. but we struggle just the same to provide good and trustworthy results. Please encourage everyone to do the same.

Re: I tried to report scientific misconduct. How did it go?

#134

The article mentions Brandolini’s Law: “The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than to produce it.” It's the first time I've heard it, but it's a very appropriate observation in today's world where misinformation travels faster and wider than correct information. If you're just making stuff up, it's much faster than looking up sources.

Also related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop

I see this widely used by antivaxxers now.

Re: I tried to report scientific misconduct. How did it go?

#135
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We hear it all the time. Its an ancient story. The history of science is full of these stories. Misguided/driven/ambitious people are always looking for shortcuts and they will find them. Its like dealing with mosquitos, cockroaches, weeds, software bugs and cancer. It never ends.

I think the point of GP's story is that this isn't just one or two bad apples here and there, but it's endemic in that domain - and most likely in others too (I'm leaning to believe that; it's not the first story like this I've read in recent years). Being an endemic problem means you have to switch your assumptions; when reading a random scientific paper, you're no longer thinking, "this is probably right, but I mus…

I think once you've seen a few papers in high-tier journals that turn out to be bullshit once you start to dig a bit deeper, there is not other choice than to adopt this harsh stance on random scientific papers. Especially if you want to do work with that expands on findings on other papers that roughly look good "trust but verify" seems to be the way to go.

I've only recently dipped by toes into academic life in a lab, but it very much seems that PIs generally know which are the bad apples. E.g. when discussing whether some data is good enough to be publishable the PIs reaction was something along the lines of "If we were FAMOUS_LAB_NAME it would be, but we want to do it in a way that holds up". So it seems like there are at least some barriers to how incompetence would hurt the whole field.

I'm also surprised that there is no mention of the PI in GP's story. As it's a paper published by the lab, it's not just on the grad student "to do the right thing", but even more on the more senior scientist, whose reputation is also at stake.

Re: I tried to report scientific misconduct. How did it go?

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point of GP's story is that this isn't just one or two bad apples here and there, but it's endemic in that domain - and most likely in others too (I'm leaning to believe that; it's not the first story like this I've read in recent years). Being an endemic problem means you have to switch your assumptions; when reading a random scientific paper, you're no longer thinking, "this is probably right, but I mus…

I think once you've seen a few papers in high-tier journals that turn out to be bullshit once you start to dig a bit deeper, there is not other choice than to adopt this harsh stance on random scientific papers. Especially if you want to do work with that expands on findings on other papers that roughly look good "trust but verify" seems to be the way to go. I've only recently dipped by toes into academic life in a l…

Funny story, PI noticed an error in one of my papers and I (happily) issued a very minor retraction. Also in one of the threads I talked about how he did retract several year's worth of work done on a different project by the intern when she joined later. So he was alright. Plus, as a junior (2nd year grad student) you really don't want to tattle on the NIH grad student of the year. Who do you think wrote the recommendation?

Re: I tried to report scientific misconduct. How did it go?

#137

In graduate school, in my lab there was a grad student who was kind of an unlikely "professor's pet". He was tall and had surfer's long hair with a bit of a hippie aesthetic. Anyways, he was also really completely clueless about how to do science correctly, but also, I guess, really good about playing politics (there was a time when he asked me to put some bacterial plasmid DNA on my mammalian cells. I told him "it d…

My cousin was a student at a lab where a sketchy grad student doctored results too. She was majorly sketched out by the whole thing and that the PI supported the whole op. It was very painful and set her back a bit but she managed to switch to a different lab and do proper work, defend her thesis, graduate, and get far away from those people. Now we just shake our head in disbelief at them but at that point it was fa…

Every now and then I go through some of wikipedias sources on certain social topics because I don't trust them at all. The amount of BS I've found in papers, even though I don't eve have any research background at all is impressive.

My favourite was probably this one paper where the author essentially made a reddit-post asking a community about themselves, then cherry-picked (the post is still up, with timestamps and all) a few comments and came to a conclusion that didn't really fit those hand-picked comments.

In conclusion: Wikipedia is a dumpster fire and shouldn't be used for anything other than hard facts like dates and for entertainment.

Re: I tried to report scientific misconduct. How did it go?

#139
Scientists are people. Taking the path of least resistance and skipping over details is the nature of some people, and thus of some scientists as well.

It's not unbeknownst in other professions. Anecdotally, I haven't had my car serviced in a shop for years because mechanics even with supposedly good reputation would fail to do even trivial maintenance jobs properly, invariably requiring myself to partially redo it myself to ensure the quality of the installation which defeats the point of having a job done by a paid professional in the first place. It's the boring details and following the process carefully that these people skip, in hope for getting results quicker and moving on sooner. I just take it that some people are like that, and the lower barrier of entry to sciences than before means there are more corner-cutters in academia as well.

The question is where in the process of the academic journey from student, master, grad-student to doctor are people qualified for the work as for their psychology and personality, not only knowledge and intelligence?

The danger signs with this sort of personality are undoubtedly visible in early stages. The market pressure to maintain one's reputation doesn't seem to work in the academia as illustrated by the article. Thus, it would be better to start explicitly culling this attitude off the field before these people get to establish themselves despite their bad workmanship.

Re: I tried to report scientific misconduct. How did it go?

#140
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how this is practical. You could spend a lifetime testing the work of others and still not get through it all, let alone get to working on anything original. Progress is made by building on the work of others.

The point is not to test everything ever published, its that when you want to do X, you look for papers on X understanding that they are likely flawed but better than starting from scratch.

This still don’t make sense. For example, I want to paint my house with a less toxic paint. I can’t trust any academic research. I have to now research what is toxic in paint? Then I have to find ways to measure various chemicals and gases? Etc...

This seems like a complete utter waste of time.

In real life most life impacting academic research is much more right than wrong. You are far better served assuming so. Unless you want to waste your time going back to basic science and rebuilding all the academic knowledge in most things you wish to do.

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