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Mother's blood test predicts a sub-type of autism

nature.com

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Re: Mother's blood test predicts a sub-type of autism

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The two should be treated differently. Many are diagnosed with “autism”, seemingly not for any lack of ability, but præferences the diagnostician does not necessarily agree with. I also object to “neuro-” morpheme. The diagnosis of these conditions are psychiatric, not neurological, and in many cases where such a diagnosis was made, there is nothing neurologically unusual that could be found, but in some cases there…

Unless you believe in mind-body dualism, then your objection of the neuro morpheme is on shaky ground. All psychiatric disorders ARE neurological...i.e. is rooted in the brain and associated systems. Moreover, there are plenty of neurological differences between ASD and TD groups, both at the cellular and morphological levels. However, a lot of the morphological differences are too small, and heterogeneity too large,…

The problem with your reasoning is that you assume that what psychiatrists group together based on behavior and culture must share single identifiable neurological causes.

It's entirely possible that there is nothing neurologically objectively different about an autistic person from a non-autistic person, and that it's simply a cultural quirk that led to it; this has been the case with many historical diagnoses.

In fact, I would argue that this is not simply possible, but likely, given that usually, if such a neurological discriminant exist, it is typically quickly found. That they have searched for so long without being able to find it, is indicative of a nonexistence.

Re: Mother's blood test predicts a sub-type of autism

#52
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Something that has struck out to me for many years now is the rather striking lack of reporting on the incredibly strong correlation between parental (both maternal/paternal) age at time of conception and ASM. I thought this was common knowledge? I’ve certainly read this frequently and it’s something that is brought up (anecdotally) by OB/GYNs as women enter their 30’s. My wife and several family members ruefully w…

Perhaps not common enough. For instance, both my wife and I knew about the ~35 point of "advanced maternal age" and that there are risks associated with late conception, but it's the first time I hear autism is one of these risks.

Same here.

Re: Mother's blood test predicts a sub-type of autism

#53
post #7

Something that has struck out to me for many years now is the rather striking lack of reporting on the incredibly strong correlation between parental (both maternal/paternal) age at time of conception and ASM. My nephew is autistic. He is my sister's youngest, and is 10 years younger than his sibling. This isn't a coincidence. Parents who have their children in their mid 30s and later are orders of magnitude more lik…

> Something that has struck out to me for many years now is the rather striking lack of reporting on the incredibly strong correlation between parental (both maternal/paternal) age at time of conception and ASM.

Thee's a strong link to paternal age that seems well established. Maternal age effects seem to be all over the map: I've seen weaker positive correlation with advancing maternal age than paternal age, no correlation with maternal age, and negative correlation with maternal age in different studies (possibly with varying degrees of controlling for other known contributors; e.g., apparently women with autism tend to have first children older, which by itself can create the impression of a maternal age effect of not controlled for.)

Re: Mother's blood test predicts a sub-type of autism

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even more neutral would be to call it Autism Spectrum or Autism Spectrum Condition, not "Disorder". "Disorder" is a medical term for "badness", especially weird to apply to a condition that is notable for its extreme mental... orderliness.

The thing is, while there may be a broader thing for which “Autism Spectrum Condition” is the most accurate label, modern psychiatry can only diagnose a disorder, and that's not just an arbitrary artifact of naming. We don't have the understanding of the mechanics beneath most psychological conditions, including Autism, to diagnose them other than by the combination of social dysfunction and accompanying factors. To…

Autism is understood to be a neurodevelopmental condition rather than a psychiatric one. This would make sense given sensory differences are common and that autism has comorbidity with prosapognosia.

Re: Mother's blood test predicts a sub-type of autism

#55
This is mind blowing... if I understand correctly basically it’s moms immune system that induces autism, is this the correct interpretation? I’d imagine it’s more complicated but still... it gives hope that early intervention and maybe prenatal and postnatal treatments to reduce the incidence.

Re: Mother's blood test predicts a sub-type of autism

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The neurodiversity movement/argument really gained strength as improvements in diagnostic instrument sensitivity produced diagnoses with less profound forms of autism. While I respect the message of neurodiversity, it has often come at the expense of individuals with profound autism where one would be hard-pressed to not apply labels like disability, impairment, and such. Profound autism represents a substantial prop…

I think it's difficult with autism because autism applies to people who cannot feed themselves as well as people who would be defined by others as 'quirky'. There's no differentiation, so it'd be like calling all men disabled because some men are disabled. Of course, calling all men completely healthy isn't right either. There's no granularity.

These days it's also a lot of pretty much random people who were sent to the school psychologist for some reason or other, plus a bunch of people who went to see a GP for things like a runny nose and were hoodwinked into a couple of psychiatric diagnoses they'll never get rid of, plus a lot of depressive narcissists who cling to their unfounded diagnosis to feel better about themselves, and the doctors play along because it's the easiest way to deal with them.

I suspect >90% of so called ASD cases have little real clinical basis these days and the entire disorder looks very fishy.

Re: Mother's blood test predicts a sub-type of autism

#57
post #3

> Autism spectrum disorder (ASD) is characterized by social and behavioral impairments, along with restricted interests and repetitive behaviors. This seems like a very negative view of autism.

An honest question: is there a Positive or even neutral one-line summary of ASD?

How about a list of people who have/had it:

Tim Burton – Movie Director / Lewis Carroll – Author of “Alice in Wonderland” / Charles Darwin – Naturalist, Geologist, and Biologist / Emily Dickinson – Poet / Albert Einstein – Scientist & Mathematician / Bobby Fischer – Chess Grandmaster / Bill Gates – Co-founder of the Microsoft Corporation / Temple Grandin – Animal Scientist / Thomas Jefferson – Early American Politician / Steve Jobs – Former CEO of Apple / Stanley Kubrick – Film Director / Barbara McClintock – Scientist and Cytogeneticist / Michelangelo – Sculptor, Painter, Architect, Poet / Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart – Classical Composer / Sir Isaac Newton – Mathematician, Astronomer, & Physicist / Nikola Tesla – Inventor / Andy Warhol – Artist

https://www.appliedbehavioranalysisprograms.com/historys-30-...

Re: Mother's blood test predicts a sub-type of autism

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And "Advanced Maternal Age" is extremely well known among mothers (in broad strokes if not technical details), who have generational experience with the issue. Of course gynecologists are also well aware. https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/getting-pregnan... It's a little bit disconcerting to see men pontificating about things they discovered that women already know quite well.

I don't understand the intention behind your final sentence, and to whom it referred. If directed at my post, all I can say is that in respect to autism, it is paternal age which is the most critical, per the science, which, by the way, isn't something I just learned, its related to my career.

disappears if you control for the fact that older men have children with older women

Re: Mother's blood test predicts a sub-type of autism

#59
post #55

This is mind blowing... if I understand correctly basically it’s moms immune system that induces autism, is this the correct interpretation? I’d imagine it’s more complicated but still... it gives hope that early intervention and maybe prenatal and postnatal treatments to reduce the incidence.

What's super crazy is that if it's an autoimmune problem then the idea that vaccines cause autism might actually be right for a very small percentage of the population. If that were to be true (a HUGE if) and we could figure out the precursor markers then we could exempt the folks who need exemption and still keep herd immunity by vaccinating all the folks who wouldn't be harmed.

Re: Mother's blood test predicts a sub-type of autism

#60
post #7

Something that has struck out to me for many years now is the rather striking lack of reporting on the incredibly strong correlation between parental (both maternal/paternal) age at time of conception and ASM. My nephew is autistic. He is my sister's youngest, and is 10 years younger than his sibling. This isn't a coincidence. Parents who have their children in their mid 30s and later are orders of magnitude more lik…

> Something that has struck out to me for many years now is the rather striking lack of reporting on the incredibly strong correlation between parental (both maternal/paternal) age at time of conception and ASM. Thee's a strong link to paternal age that seems well established. Maternal age effects seem to be all over the map: I've seen weaker positive correlation with advancing maternal age than paternal age, no corr…

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