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Mother's blood test predicts a sub-type of autism

nature.com

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Re: Mother's blood test predicts a sub-type of autism

#31

Post by throwaway2245 »

tokai wrote: post #30
throwaway2245 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be neutral if they listed specific attributes (or said the word 'attribute' rather than 'impairment'). Saying only 'impairment' implies that all attributes associated with autism are negative compared to some mythical baseline, and creates a circular definition which stigmatises autistic people.

The positive attributes are not interesting or relevant in a psychiatric sense. This is from a research paper not popular journalism on autism.

The fact that this research paper is classifying all such attributes as negative without justification is inappropriate. It's not scientific - it's not the science that this paper is doing.

Re: Mother's blood test predicts a sub-type of autism

#32

Post by SargeZT »

rsstack wrote: post #25
alisonkisk wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"behavioral impairment" is a social judgement, not a biological flaw. Homosexuality was long considered a psychiatric disorder, so be careful putting blind faith in psychiatric judgements.

Many people with ASD (not all! not most! but many) can barely survive on their own. I'm not talking about "too shy to buy groceries". ASD should be prevented medically. That is not to say people with ASD aren't often amazing people or that their lives aren't worth it, but minimizing the rate at which ASD occurs will mean far fewer people will suffer in the future from something that is (hopefully) preventable.

Barely can be an understatement. My youngest sister is severely autistic and absolutely couldn't survive without a strong support system, both from the state and our family. She lives in a group home with 19 other people in a similar state.

With that said, due to my exposure to autism through my sister, I have seen cases that are far worse than hers. Completely non-verbal people with autism, those who experience panic attacks when they see an unfamiliar person, the list goes on.

We tend to focus on the lighter end of the spectrum, where people can lead functional and fulfilling lives. Most people don't see the other side of the spectrum, where autism is devastating to every single person involved.

Re: Mother's blood test predicts a sub-type of autism

#33

Post by chownie »

danielheath wrote: post #19
trhway wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Neurodiversity" does sound like a thing to be encouraged, or at least not to be avoided/minimized. Do we really want more autism?

Autism is an extremely broad term. At one extreme, those who will never speak and spend their lives enraged by being unable to communicate. At the other, a very substantial fraction of the worlds finest science & engineering minds. I wouldn't mind a few more of the latter.

It's also true that a large portion of the high support needs cohort have other developmental disabilities. Autism is often co-diagnosed but doesn't account for the entirety of that demographic.

Re: Mother's blood test predicts a sub-type of autism

#34

Post by TeaDrunk »

SubiculumCode wrote: post #8
macksd wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a movement to reframe things like autism as neurodiversity rather than strictly a disorder. I suppose the emphasis in that case would instead be on things people can do well, not what they do wrong by everyone else's standard.

The neurodiversity movement/argument really gained strength as improvements in diagnostic instrument sensitivity produced diagnoses with less profound forms of autism. While I respect the message of neurodiversity, it has often come at the expense of individuals with profound autism where one would be hard-pressed to not apply labels like disability, impairment, and such. Profound autism represents a substantial prop…

I think it's difficult with autism because autism applies to people who cannot feed themselves as well as people who would be defined by others as 'quirky'. There's no differentiation, so it'd be like calling all men disabled because some men are disabled. Of course, calling all men completely healthy isn't right either. There's no granularity.

Re: Mother's blood test predicts a sub-type of autism

#35

Post by SubiculumCode »

Blikkentrekker wrote: post #23
macksd wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a movement to reframe things like autism as neurodiversity rather than strictly a disorder. I suppose the emphasis in that case would instead be on things people can do well, not what they do wrong by everyone else's standard.

The two should be treated differently. Many are diagnosed with “autism”, seemingly not for any lack of ability, but præferences the diagnostician does not necessarily agree with. I also object to “neuro-” morpheme. The diagnosis of these conditions are psychiatric, not neurological, and in many cases where such a diagnosis was made, there is nothing neurologically unusual that could be found, but in some cases there…

Unless you believe in mind-body dualism, then your objection of the neuro morpheme is on shaky ground.

All psychiatric disorders ARE neurological...i.e. is rooted in the brain and associated systems. Moreover, there are plenty of neurological differences between ASD and TD groups, both at the cellular and morphological levels. However, a lot of the morphological differences are too small, and heterogeneity too large, to be useful as a means of diagnosis.

Re: Mother's blood test predicts a sub-type of autism

#36

Post by dragonwriter »

alisonkisk wrote: post #20
DanBC wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could re-write > Autism spectrum disorder (ASD) is characterized by [...] restricted interests and repetitive behaviors. as > ASD is characterized by an ability to focus intently on an area of special interest, developing an unusually detailed level of knowledge of that topic. There's always a tension with efforts to depathologise things, because some people do need support and the way they get support at the mome…

Even more neutral would be to call it Autism Spectrum or Autism Spectrum Condition, not "Disorder". "Disorder" is a medical term for "badness", especially weird to apply to a condition that is notable for its extreme mental... orderliness.

The thing is, while there may be a broader thing for which “Autism Spectrum Condition” is the most accurate label, modern psychiatry can only diagnose a disorder, and that's not just an arbitrary artifact of naming. We don't have the understanding of the mechanics beneath most psychological conditions, including Autism, to diagnose them other than by the combination of social dysfunction and accompanying factors. To the extent that there is an Autism or Autism-like-condition which is not a “badness” in the concrete conditions in which it is experienced it is outside the scope of what we can meaningfully discern.

> "Disorder" is a medical term for "badness", especially weird to apply to a condition that is notable for its extreme mental... orderliness.

I don't see anything weird about that; are you suggesting that there is no extreme of inflexible attachment to order which would be ever be bad?

Re: Mother's blood test predicts a sub-type of autism

#37

Post by tokai »

rsstack wrote: post #25
alisonkisk wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"behavioral impairment" is a social judgement, not a biological flaw. Homosexuality was long considered a psychiatric disorder, so be careful putting blind faith in psychiatric judgements.

Many people with ASD (not all! not most! but many) can barely survive on their own. I'm not talking about "too shy to buy groceries". ASD should be prevented medically. That is not to say people with ASD aren't often amazing people or that their lives aren't worth it, but minimizing the rate at which ASD occurs will mean far fewer people will suffer in the future from something that is (hopefully) preventable.

I worked with a guy that died from malnutrition. We worked hard on getting enough food in him, but he had so many issues related to food and eating that his body eventually capitulated. He was a really sweet dude, we talked a lot about computers.

His diagnosis didn't feel like a social judgement. The impairment literally killed him even though he wanted to live.

Re: Mother's blood test predicts a sub-type of autism

#38

Post by lc9er »

JPKab wrote: post #7

Something that has struck out to me for many years now is the rather striking lack of reporting on the incredibly strong correlation between parental (both maternal/paternal) age at time of conception and ASM. My nephew is autistic. He is my sister's youngest, and is 10 years younger than his sibling. This isn't a coincidence. Parents who have their children in their mid 30s and later are orders of magnitude more lik…

> Something that has struck out to me for many years now is the rather striking lack of reporting on the incredibly strong correlation between parental (both maternal/paternal) age at time of conception and ASM.

I thought this was common knowledge? I’ve certainly read this frequently and it’s something that is brought up (anecdotally) by OB/GYNs as women enter their 30’s. My wife and several family members ruefully will tell stories about how their doc let them know that they’ll be considered of “advanced maternal age” when they hit 35. They were then reminded of the increased risk of birth defects, autism, and complications.

Re: Mother's blood test predicts a sub-type of autism

#39

Post by hobos_delight »

For anyone interested in the history of ASD, I highly recommend the book NeuroTribes [1] - I read this shortly after my son was diagnosed with ASD and it goes through a lot of history, up to the most recent DSM V definition.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeuroTribes

Re: Mother's blood test predicts a sub-type of autism

#40

Post by SubiculumCode »

hobos_delight wrote: post #39

For anyone interested in the history of ASD, I highly recommend the book NeuroTribes [1] - I read this shortly after my son was diagnosed with ASD and it goes through a lot of history, up to the most recent DSM V definition. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeuroTribes

I agree, and own the book, and have had lunch with the author, but I would just add that NeuroTribes represents a very opinionated take on autism that has some sharp critics.
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