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What Really Keeps Poor People Poor

jonbischke.com

51–60 of 149 posts

Re: What Really Keeps Poor People Poor

#51
post #43
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These favored clients are huge customers like funds. They pay the brokerage millions of dollars just in transaction fees every year. In this context, an undervalued IPO every once in a while is more like a perk to a valued customer -- it's the equivalent of the bouquet of flowers or bottle of wine a company might send to a regular Joe.

> In this context, an undervalued IPO every once in a while is more like a perk to a valued customer -- it's the equivalent of the bouquet of flowers or bottle of wine a company might send to a regular Joe. Yes, but that perk is paid for by LinkedIn.

LinkedIn agreed to the IPO price. Presumably they felt that undervaluing the stock had enough PR benefits.

(These stories about the IPO pricing, where LinkedIn gets to be portrayed as honest entrepreneurs ripped off by an evil bank, surely is an additional PR victory they gained from this move.)

Re: What Really Keeps Poor People Poor

#52
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually you can make $10,000 from nothing weeding or mowing. Of course, you have to be willing to do hard things like get rejected door to door, but it's extremely possible.

If 'nothing' == 'buying a lawn mower, a truck, a trailer, and a weed wacker' then you'd be correct. Although I'm not sure which part of the the Bronx you think I should setup my mowing business in because the last time I checked, there isn't any grass.

There was a great comment on here by Mahmud, I think, about how he used to make a few hundred dollars per day with a bucket of water and some sponges washing windows.

It is possible to make money with work ethic and no capital.

Re: What Really Keeps Poor People Poor

#53
post #44
post #35

Having been poor (not 3rd world poor, poor by American standards) I found the most difficult thing is leaving the poverty stricken network. You don't feel like you've made it until you reject the entire mindset. Until then, you feel like you've sold out. My mother still makes me feel guilty and shames me every time I see her. Until you've had a parent who shames you for doing better than they did, you'll never unders…

"With many of them you risk violence, drugs, abuse, sexual abuse, racism, etc." This modern bugbear of racism is getting ridiculous. Did you really just equate "racism" with sexual abuse? What does racism even mean anymore? Is it only institutional discrimination, e.g. the refusal of the publicly funded government to hire some races? That's where it started. Now, you can be a racist if you have a type you prefer to d…

What does racism even mean anymore?

It's a form of bigotry which is also deeply aligned with hate, often violent hate. It's probably the same thing that sparks sectarian violence.

It can also reside, in a form without overt violent manifestation.

Now, you can be a racist if you have a type you prefer to date that doesn't suit the whims of your accuser.

I would admit that this isn't sufficient to label someone of racism. The question to ask would be: Does the vivid thought of a loved one (a parent or a child) dating a member of a given race cause a strong emotional reaction?

I'm not sure what racism is. I'm not sure academics have a good handle on all of the mechanisms by which it operates, but, in the words of the Penny Arcade guys, it is a thing. Its operation in the real world is undeniable. For many in the context of minority, it is very palpable.

EDIT: It's probably connected to some suite of group organization/defense instincts. It probably operates on the same level that religion operates on.

Re: What Really Keeps Poor People Poor

#54
post #35

Having been poor (not 3rd world poor, poor by American standards) I found the most difficult thing is leaving the poverty stricken network. You don't feel like you've made it until you reject the entire mindset. Until then, you feel like you've sold out. My mother still makes me feel guilty and shames me every time I see her. Until you've had a parent who shames you for doing better than they did, you'll never unders…

People develop those bad attitudes, viewpoints, or whatever, in large part because they are poor. The contagion aspect, if it exists, is secondary. You are simply advocating the preservation of the elite by gating access to it. Of course if everyone had access to the same networks there would be no elite anymore. If it raises the prospects of the vast majority of Americans by, say, 5%, that would actually be great for the country, and maybe not having an elite wouldn't be so bad (to the extent this is even possible, of course there will always be some that are far ahead of the curve). But it would be bad-mouthed as socialism.

Re: What Really Keeps Poor People Poor

#55
post #35

Having been poor (not 3rd world poor, poor by American standards) I found the most difficult thing is leaving the poverty stricken network. You don't feel like you've made it until you reject the entire mindset. Until then, you feel like you've sold out. My mother still makes me feel guilty and shames me every time I see her. Until you've had a parent who shames you for doing better than they did, you'll never unders…

I have had a sort of reverse experience, but which has led me to believe that poverty is a "contagious mindset, nothing more" as well: My family were academics, so our bank accounts were mostly empty, our clothes were pretty old, etc, but we grew in upper middle class New York. I pretended to be blue collar in my twenties, thinking I would be the next great socialist author. However, when I got sick of, well, being poor, I just started taking classes at the community college, schmoozing my teachers and my bosses, and voila, I am a solidly middle class data hacker 15 years later. I don't have the bank account I would have had if I went to college earlier and started investing, but whatever, I am so not poor. For the blue collar people I worked with before the transition, however, the idea of getting a bunch of education and then becoming a manager was inconceivable and frankly immoral; they have probably not done as well as I in the last 15 years.

I hope God appreciates humor, because if I say grace, it always includes something like "and thanks for giving me an upper middle class cultural background", because, well, I would be f*ed with out it (as are LOTS AND LOTS of people in the US).

Also -- note that I have not mentioned race. I think it has become largely irrelevant to the dynamics of poverty, thank god, but only because my experience shows me that you can be totally screwed by the above culture of poverty and be of the same british isle/ german descent as my upper middle NYC friends.

EDIT: And I think we should be throwing our weight into fixing this massive cultural problem, along with the wasted human potential it causes (really expensive to hire prison guards and social workers). However, the left says "there is no cultural problem" and the right says "screw em, its their own damn fault", even while the US rots from the inside.

Re: What Really Keeps Poor People Poor

#56
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ridiculous part was picking one word out of a very thoughtful post (and one written as a first person account, not conjecture) and attacking that rather than the overall point. The first time I read his story I didn't even notice that he had mentioned racism in it, it was largely immaterial. But quoting only that part makes it sound like he is blaming racism as the cause for poverty, which he clearly isn't. If I…

It's as ridiculous as if he had casually tossed "overeating" into that list as well. Of course when something sticks out like a sore thumb, that individual part will get attention. Your point is that you can only reply holistically or something?

It's as ridiculous as if he had casually tossed "overeating" into that list as well.

Actually, overeating and obesity have been shown to have a social transmission component.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1919885,00.ht...

Re: What Really Keeps Poor People Poor

#57
post #10
post #2

There are a few reasons that poor people remain poor. Math: The fact is that it's much more difficult to make $10,000 from nothing than it is to make $1M when you have $1B to use. Experience: When you're poor, the odds are very good that you don't know anyone who is successful(let alone "rich") so there isn't the chance to find out what it takes to be successful. Plus, when you have no experience you need to work you…

Poor people need to work for tomorrow. No failure accepted. Rich people invest in their future. Failure is ok.

Yes. The poor can accept no risk, and can't even leverage on a safe bet. The rich can do both, multiple times.

Re: What Really Keeps Poor People Poor

#58
post #5

Many factors in poor staying poor. The High Cost of Poverty: Why the Poor Pay More: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05... Poor people spend 9% of income on lottery tickets; here's why: http://www.walletpop.com/blog/2010/05/31/poor-people-spend-9... Missing poverty's new reality: There's a lot less of it: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01...

Your first link is full of fail. You [a hypothetical poor person] don't have a car to get to a supermarket... 70% of the poor own a car, 25% own two cars. When you are poor, you don't have the luxury of throwing a load into the washing machine... 64% of the poor do have that luxury. http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/h150-07.pdf It only gets worse from that point on. The poor can't get free supermarket discount card…

I’m not going to look for an answer right now in that 642-page book, but I suspect that a significant fraction of poor people live in suburban or rural areas, where owning a car is an absolute necessity for holding a job, and owning two cars would be damn near a necessity in families where both parents work outside the house.

Re: What Really Keeps Poor People Poor

#59
I think I'm going to be the only person commenting here who's going to cop to getting jobs all the time based on nothing but middle class social connections. I've gotten jobs through uncle's girlfriends/father's frat brothers/my drinking buddies. Honestly, most people I come in contact with know somebody with or have the ability to give me work, and I have the ability to get some of them work just by being a piece of the network for now, but probably after I'm further along in my career, directly. I have no doubt that if I become a business owner, or pursue a managerial track, I'll be expected to do the same thing for other people and their kids.

How else are you expected to get the million years of experience on everything expected at every job? The only entry-level jobs I see advertised are for entry-level geniuses.

I don't think that this can be artificially created by a third party for adults.

The advice that I would give to actual poor people: make friends with people with money. Wrack your brains to think of ways to do things for them for free so you can become a part of the favor trading network. Drink with them a lot - unless they're religious people, then pray with them. Only date people who have a family that has money. More money is better than less money. Avoid people with no money.

Re: What Really Keeps Poor People Poor

#60
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The graph is disjoint. I remember when I was in school and teachers were asking me what I wanted to do in college, and I had known not one single professional individual ever, other than teachers, with a teacher/pupil ratio of 33/1. How was I supposed to know? The problem with being poor is that everybody else you know is poor and also doesn't have an iota how to get out of it.

They know. At least, they have a rough idea. Of course, it wouldn't be much help to have your mother say "learn to read" if she can't help teach you. The other problem (which will be well-known by many hn-ers) is that trying to get out of is discouraged. Would you make friends with a guy who wants to study in another zip code, or a guy who wants to stay in the 'hood? If you think you are going to stay in the 'hood, t…

Sounds like there may be an "evaporative cooling" effect.

http://lesswrong.com/lw/lr/evaporative_cooling_of_group_beli...

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