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What Really Keeps Poor People Poor

jonbischke.com

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Re: What Really Keeps Poor People Poor

#11

Post by zamfi »

dgreensp wrote: post #6

He stretches the point a bit far. When he's talking about "isolation" broadly, I can maybe see the point -- lack of role models, mentors, references, people to help get your foot in the door at your first job. (I have no idea if this is "what really keeps poor people poor.") Then he uses "network" to mean what you get at Harvard or Yale, and suggests that this is a gating factor, that masses of people have everything…

The Gladwell piece actually does a better job illustrating the point, I think.

Gladwell effectively claims that success in life is due in part to finding the right opportunities at the right time, and the networks you get at Harvard and Yale (and many other potential places, Gladwell doesn't focus on universities the way this post does) provide you with a mechanism for finding those opportunities. And this is "opportunities" in the broadest sense.

I'd believe that if you and everyone you know works low-paying service jobs, that it's then going to be harder to discover opportunities for pursuing passions and career advancement.

Re: What Really Keeps Poor People Poor

#12

Post by drats »

RK wrote: post #3

at the top places, two-thirds of the students come from the top quartile and only 5 percent come from the bottom quartile Whenever I see a statistic like that, the first question I want answered is: what is the trend over time? Maybe this is actually a big change with only 1% coming from the bottom quartile 10 years ago, indicating the future situation, etc.

The long term trend is quite extraordinary with regard to the total number going into higher ed (which form networks too, although not the same as the elite institutions).

"Two percent of Americans aged 18 to 24 were enrolled in a university at the beginning of the 20th century. At nearly the end of the 20th century, beyond 60 percent, or 14 million students, were enrolled in 3500 four year or two year colleges."

http://ajha.org/early-history-of-universities-in-america.htm

Re: What Really Keeps Poor People Poor

#14

Post by izendejas »

I come from an officially poor background, but it wasn't until I started learning about my girlfriend's family back in her native, third-world country that I really got a sense for what third-world poverty is:

- Constant verbal, physical, sometimes sexual abuse--the stuff that really traumatizes people into doing these same things across generations. This isn't the stuff you learn about in the news because, sadly, to many people living in those conditions, it's part of life. - Simply not have any positive role models at all to look up to. Their role-models are their parents, or their neighbors who have basically grown accustomed to living in poverty and can offer no guidance.

And I can go on and on.

My girlfriend and I have simply concluded: "some of these people don't know any better." If they had better role-models, they'd have a better shot.

So it is about the network in a way, but the author doesn't go enough to explain why. I'd like to give it a shot based on my observations: the network effect matters. Escaping one network to join a knowledgeable and competitive one exposes you to different ways of thinking, makes you question preconceived notions you have, makes you realize just how badly things really were, etc. I'm sure others here can relate even more, but coming from a modest background, it has been truly eye opening to be in the bay area, for example. There are so many talented, ambitious young people that inspire you every day to push your selves to the limits, that question your abilities, etc. Most people, I must say are unfortunate to not even know what YC is, entrepreneurship is all about, etc.

So for anyone who doesn't really understand poverty (I myself, included), I really recommend you visit a third-world country and actually live amidst them. Find a friend who comes from such a background and go stay with his/her family and him/her. You'll realize just how fortunate you are. By all means, don't feel bad about this, just gain some conscious about the fact that there are less fortunate people out there and begin to question what you can do with your companies, at your job to educate these people.

To finish, for anyone that questions a university's worth... remember this, an education isn't just the material you learn during lectures or books, it's what you learn about others and from others that really , also. And this latter component, I think is the secret to reducing poverty: simple exposure to new ways of life.

Re: What Really Keeps Poor People Poor

#15

Post by motters »

I think these things were identified several decades ago by sociologists. Namely that poverty isn't so much about money or level of education, as popularly supposed, but is primarily about "social exclusion", where there are few or no opportunities for someone of modest upbringing to break into other kinds of social circle.

My grandparents generation had a very acute understanding of social class, and it played a central role in their lives in a variety of ways. I think the kinds of issues which they faced are now returning.

Re: What Really Keeps Poor People Poor

#16

Post by hessenwolf »

izendejas wrote: post #14

I come from an officially poor background, but it wasn't until I started learning about my girlfriend's family back in her native, third-world country that I really got a sense for what third-world poverty is: - Constant verbal, physical, sometimes sexual abuse--the stuff that really traumatizes people into doing these same things across generations. This isn't the stuff you learn about in the news because, sadly, to…

The graph is disjoint. I remember when I was in school and teachers were asking me what I wanted to do in college, and I had known not one single professional individual ever, other than teachers, with a teacher/pupil ratio of 33/1. How was I supposed to know?

The problem with being poor is that everybody else you know is poor and also doesn't have an iota how to get out of it.

Re: What Really Keeps Poor People Poor

#17

Post by hessenwolf »

daimyoyo wrote: post #2

There are a few reasons that poor people remain poor. Math: The fact is that it's much more difficult to make $10,000 from nothing than it is to make $1M when you have $1B to use. Experience: When you're poor, the odds are very good that you don't know anyone who is successful(let alone "rich") so there isn't the chance to find out what it takes to be successful. Plus, when you have no experience you need to work you…

Gentleman, when I first started Reynholm Industries, I had just two things in my possession: a dream...

and 6 million pounds. Today, I have a business empire, the like of which... the world has never seen the like of which. Hope it doesn't sound arrogant when I say... that I am the greatest man in the world!

Re: What Really Keeps Poor People Poor

#18

Post by yummyfajitas »

Joakal wrote: post #5

Many factors in poor staying poor. The High Cost of Poverty: Why the Poor Pay More: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05... Poor people spend 9% of income on lottery tickets; here's why: http://www.walletpop.com/blog/2010/05/31/poor-people-spend-9... Missing poverty's new reality: There's a lot less of it: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01...

Your first link is full of fail.

You [a hypothetical poor person] don't have a car to get to a supermarket...

70% of the poor own a car, 25% own two cars.

When you are poor, you don't have the luxury of throwing a load into the washing machine...

64% of the poor do have that luxury.

http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/h150-07.pdf

It only gets worse from that point on. The poor can't get free supermarket discount cards?

Re: What Really Keeps Poor People Poor

#19

Post by pavlov »

aantix wrote: post #9

This article has me reminiscing about the recent Linked-In IPO; I remember reading that the IPO was offered to favorable clients of the brokerage underwriting the IPO. I don't know how many "favorable" offerings are presented each year or what their performances are, but if the IPO is purposelessly undervalued to make their clients richer, how does one compete with that? I doubt a $100 or 10k account would draw enoug…

These favored clients are huge customers like funds. They pay the brokerage millions of dollars just in transaction fees every year.

In this context, an undervalued IPO every once in a while is more like a perk to a valued customer -- it's the equivalent of the bouquet of flowers or bottle of wine a company might send to a regular Joe.

Re: What Really Keeps Poor People Poor

#20

Post by geon »

izendejas wrote: post #14

I come from an officially poor background, but it wasn't until I started learning about my girlfriend's family back in her native, third-world country that I really got a sense for what third-world poverty is: - Constant verbal, physical, sometimes sexual abuse--the stuff that really traumatizes people into doing these same things across generations. This isn't the stuff you learn about in the news because, sadly, to…

I have a slightly related experience. My wife is from Sri Lanka, and while she haven't herself lived in poverty, I recognize the social structure keeping it in place.

As a trivial example, in Sri Lankan culture, you don't say "thank you", "you're welcome" or give anycompliments. Instead, it is common to tell someone they look fat when you see them after a long time.

Interestingly, the Internet is changing this. My wife has a lot of her school friends in her Facebook, and people are starting to complement each other on the uploaded photos. I believe this is a result of internationalization (many Sri Lankans have moved to Australia, Italy and France) and the percieved freedom when not having to talk face-to-face.

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