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Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

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Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#611

Post by perl4ever »

crispyambulance wrote: post #460
MisterBastahrd wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Giuliani made absolutely sure that courts understood that he was NOT alleging fraud in the lawsuits he filed and took part in because he was afraid that he would be sanctioned or disbarred for such actions. Powell and Wood relied on donations for their work and Wood in particular is a multi-millionaire many times over for some of the corporate work he's done. I'm sure Rudy is rich, mostly from the speech circuit post…

Rudy is “rich enough” that he can do what he does for ideological and/or narcissistic reasons alone. He could have been living a posh retirement years ago holding court and getting blotto everyday with other a-holes, but no, he doesn’t know when to stop. Giuliani deserves whatever is coming to him.

According to an article I saw, his apparent purpose in firing people up was to sell "physical gold and silver" to them, to prepare for these uncertain times. And he was offering $1500 in free silver with the first order, too.

This seems to be a standard trope but I've never met anyone who fit it.

It also makes you wonder why he needs to bother.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#612

Post by vaidhy »

throwaway12992 wrote: post #564
MisterBastahrd wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used the wrong word, but it remains that the judges didn't normally rule on the actual arguments of the case, which were ridiculous in their own right.

They were not ridiculous. Have you heard of Antrim County? Everybody on the right heard of it on November 5th. https://www.westernjournal.com/michigan-recount-confirms-tru... This is "fact checked" by many left leaning websites to indicate it is false. But even the "fact checkers" admit that Trump actually won Antrim county. Their "fact check" ridicules that the 2nd recount, after the reversing of the dominion glitch…

If you think there is fraud, how come none of the cases made a claim of this being an actual case of fraud and win the case? Either you believe both sides were on the fraud and all the cases were frivolous or this is not a real case of fraud and would not stand under scrutiny.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#613

Post by sidlls »

newacct583 wrote: post #531
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dominion seem to be spinning this out as a campaign, so I doubt Giuliani is the end point. I also doubt Trump is the end point.

Dominion, as an operating business, has effectively been destroyed. No bipartisan election committee is going to buy their stuff anymore when it is an article of unshakable faith among one of the two parties that their machines fraudulently stole an election. So now their owners[1] need to figure out how to get whatever value they can. This isn't a "campaign", it's just a business effort. They've been transformed int…

Now if only all the other electronic voting machine companies would be similarly destroyed. There's no good reason to not have publicly counted paper ballots. Other developed countries don't seem to have problems running their elections that way.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#614

Post by vaidhy »

briandear wrote: post #509
lawnchair_larry wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All the claims if significant vote fraud were thrown out by courts up and down the land, including the Supreme Court I don’t believe that is true. As far as I know, there weren’t really any claims of voter fraud from Trump’s legal team.

The claim is that voter laws were changed by Secretaries of State rather than the legislatures as is required by the constitution. Secretaries of State changing voter laws is unconstitutional. Read the constitution. It’s crystal clear. That happened. It’s a fact.

Sorry.. Legislatures has the power to delegate that work and has been delegated to the Secretaries of State. It has been called out in multiple court rulings.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#615

Post by qwerty12345678 »

edgyquant wrote: post #596
qwerty12345678 wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're referring to Hitchens's Razor, which I believe is a flawed mindset that's used selectively as it suits people. The situation here is that the proof is very well hidden, and therefore the situation has been rendered un-falsifiable. This is now essentially a Russell's Teapot[1] statement. I'd say when people start storming the US Capitol, it's time to stop ignoring the underlying issue. Why are you so afraid of…

Because these claims were brought to court and dismissed without evidence. Quit concern trolling you know they were bullshitting and so does every other person with even the slightest technical background.

Since you bring up technical backgrounds, how do you feel about the voting machines having logs erased for 2020 but not 2016? And would you be against analyzing all election machine logs related to server-activity/internet-usage/usb-activity/code-execution-activity/etc? If you really claim that they were bullshitting, why is everyone so afraid to release that data? And not question why it was deleted?

Giuliani was jockeying for time trying to dig up more hard evidence. He apparently wasn't able to find enough in time, and judges didn't want to get involved for political reasons.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#616

Post by perl4ever »

flerchin wrote: post #607
jpxw wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it’s either that or just use paper ballots, hand counted. When I learned that the US actually uses software in its elections, I was shocked. It’s unthinkable here in the UK.

They have paper trails for every vote.

I believe you are both mistaken.

From what I've read, there are some states/localities that have paper ballots they can check, including swing states like Georgia, where they did audit that exact thing.

But then there are other states that do not keep the paper trail, most of which went "red" according to an article I read but did not verify.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#617

Post by emmelaich »

It used to be the case that accusations of voting machine related fraud came habitually and often from the left[0]. I wish we had open-source, publicly reviewed voting machines..

Diebold used to be the bête-noire of computer security people. Not particularly relevant but Dominion inherited Diebold with one of their acquisitions.

0. https://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006...

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#618

Post by matthewbauer »

jpxw wrote: post #517
chrisco255 wrote: post #469

I think it's nuts for a modern democracy to allow for anything but open source software being used to count paper ballots with chain-of-custody records, voter ID validation, biometric markings, and redacted ballots being published on the web for all to view and count independently. Software systems can easily be hacked, and it isn't easy to inspect and tell. A vote is a one time, one sided transaction. It's not as ea…

Yes, it’s either that or just use paper ballots, hand counted. When I learned that the US actually uses software in its elections, I was shocked. It’s unthinkable here in the UK.

Handcounting every single vote? That seems much more error prone than anything the U.S. uses. Ballot-marking devices used in many states[1] produce paper ballots that voter can validate and have some guarantee that it can be scanned in tabulation. I trust audited software to tabulate my vote much more than an overworked ballot counter.

[1]: https://ballotpedia.org/Voting_methods_and_equipment_by_stat...

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#619

Post by netsharc »

dionian wrote: post #312
yesdocs wrote: post #8

I hope whatever happens with these lawsuits it chills the baseless accusations of voter fraud used to undermine voter confidence in our democracy

Shutting people up is going to do the opposite. We need to debunk their claims piece by piece to convince the people that are somehow convinced by the evidence

It'd be like trying to talk to a 9/11-truther or a flat-earther, they'll have a refutation ready for all of your evidence, or they'll convince themselves your cited sources are part of the conspiracy..

They'll use any excuse to delude themselves that they're correct, because to admit otherwise is to admit that they were dumb enough to have been conned by a terrible conman. When they saw the morons attacking congress, they convinced themselves "people wearing helmets are Antifa, and all the attackers are Antifa plants...".

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#620

Post by philistine »

earleybird wrote: post #356
rwmj wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK has paper-only ballots and none of this stuff is a problem. (There are no "hanging chads" because ballots are marked by the voter with a pen or pencil on a piece of paper). The polls close at 10pm, the votes are counted overnight by volunteers, and the winner takes office the next morning. It always baffles me that the US system is so complicated.

I've participated as ballot counter in provincial elections (British Columbia) where an 'X' or check mark were valid ways to make a choice on a ballot. It was a very long time ago however my recollection was that the mark was to be on or in the box beside the candidate name. Ballots were excluded but they were exceedingly rare and always in consultation with supervisors. (completely missed the box)

I did it for municipal elections in Quebec (which follows the provincial rules) and the big important thing to note is that people voted for two things, mayor and councillor, and received two separate ballots on different papers.

There’s also the fact that the ballot is white text on black with a white circle to fill in. This design decision is ingenious in how it eliminates doubts about voting.

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