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Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

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Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#601

Post by boulos »

qwerty12345678 wrote: post #588
RHSeeger wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a general rule of thumb, if you make an extraordinary claim, the burden lies on your to provide proof if you want to be believed. Claiming that there was widespread election fraud, including by the companies making some of the devices, is an extraordinary claim. It doesn't appear there's been any proof provided to back up those extraordinary claims. As such, they can, and should, be ignored.

You're referring to Hitchens's Razor, which I believe is a flawed mindset that's used selectively as it suits people. The situation here is that the proof is very well hidden, and therefore the situation has been rendered un-falsifiable. This is now essentially a Russell's Teapot[1] statement. I'd say when people start storming the US Capitol, it's time to stop ignoring the underlying issue. Why are you so afraid of…

Russell’s teapot doesn’t fit in this case. Paper ballots exist. Many were manually recounted (whether by optical scanner or by hand).

Are there actually claims of miscounted votes that you feel were miscounted or incorrectly treated that you feel are verifiable? (And haven’t already been refuted via evidence)

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#602

Post by ahupp »

chrisco255 wrote: post #469

I think it's nuts for a modern democracy to allow for anything but open source software being used to count paper ballots with chain-of-custody records, voter ID validation, biometric markings, and redacted ballots being published on the web for all to view and count independently. Software systems can easily be hacked, and it isn't easy to inspect and tell. A vote is a one time, one sided transaction. It's not as ea…

Open source doesn't really help here, because even if I can see the source I don't have a way to verify what was running. It's more important to just not rely on software for the critical path, and make sure there's an auditable paper trail.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#603

Post by qwerty12345678 »

enkid wrote: post #573
qwerty12345678 wrote: post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Between server logs disappearing, servers themselves disappearing, USB devices being plugged into voting machines throughout election night, voting machines being connected to the internet, quick destruction of paper ballots, routing of vote data through multiple foreign countries, Dominion refusing to allow inspection of source code, and Dominion apparently being controlled by Chinese companies: Why do you assume he…

Do you have any evidence of any of this? If so, why was this not presented in any of the 60 court cases?

No post body was provided.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#604

Post by [deleted] »

akiselev wrote: post #338
vsareto wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rudy also had a cybersecurity company and was named as a cybersecurity advisor. Would that help Dominion's side that this wasn't just crazy beliefs on Giuliani's part and be in favor of actual malice?

IANAL but "they should have known" doesn't follow from how they market themselves as a business unless it's a licensed profession. It's not uncommon for defendants to completely contradict their previous public statements under threat of a lawsuit like all the Fox News lawsuits where their lawyers win by claiming that it's an entertainment channel and their viewers should know better [1]. Beyond that, one can easily…

[deleted]

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#605

Post by andrewflnr »

voxl wrote: post #568
chrisco255 wrote: post #469

I think it's nuts for a modern democracy to allow for anything but open source software being used to count paper ballots with chain-of-custody records, voter ID validation, biometric markings, and redacted ballots being published on the web for all to view and count independently. Software systems can easily be hacked, and it isn't easy to inspect and tell. A vote is a one time, one sided transaction. It's not as ea…

There is little if any actual evidence of voter fraud, but plenty of evidence that making voting harder (via voter ID validation, biometric markings, etc) simply disenfranchises voters. It's easy to say that software can just be hacked, but just because its a possibility doesn't give you the right to invalidate an election.

This is a cop-out. Other countries seem to be able to have voter identification, the US should be capable of it, too. Start by making the identity card free-as-in-beer, bonus points for not requiring a permanent address.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#606

Post by Akronymus »

CydeWeys wrote: post #575
djrogers wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel so disconnected from this process here in California - I haven't been asked for ID to vote ever . AFAIK, we're not allowed to verify ID here...

It's a good thing not doing it. ID verification disenfranchises way more people than fraudulent votes prevented.

I thought that ID was already basically required to be able to live a acceptable life in the US.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#607

Post by flerchin »

jpxw wrote: post #517
chrisco255 wrote: post #469

I think it's nuts for a modern democracy to allow for anything but open source software being used to count paper ballots with chain-of-custody records, voter ID validation, biometric markings, and redacted ballots being published on the web for all to view and count independently. Software systems can easily be hacked, and it isn't easy to inspect and tell. A vote is a one time, one sided transaction. It's not as ea…

Yes, it’s either that or just use paper ballots, hand counted. When I learned that the US actually uses software in its elections, I was shocked. It’s unthinkable here in the UK.

They have paper trails for every vote.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#608

Post by AnHonestComment »

throwawayboise wrote: post #350
DonHopkins wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone actually involved in voting machine security research, and not just a fraudulent troll like Rudy Giuliani, welcomes this lawsuit. His unhinged spouting of unsubstantiated conspiracy theories has only harmed and discredited legitimate voting security research.

The thing that confounds me is that this is the same guy who took down organized crime in NYC the 1990s. No small task, and one that required meticulous gathering and handling of evidence. And then later he was a very successful mayor. Are we to believe he's simply gone insane in his old age?

No post body was provided.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#609

Post by tartoran »

Pxtl wrote: post #536
tartoran wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet we're gonna see a fight between Giuliani and Trump now. Sick of this whole tantrum, peeps, let's move on. We have a pandemic to tackle, we have a shitty economy, we have shitty buggy software, we have corps creating walled gardens threatening the existence of the internet as we knew it, etcetera. Let's look towards the future even if the climate change seems too daunting, we may find a solution for that too.

I wonder if that isn't figuring into a republican strategy: let's get the public so exhausted with our nonsense that the Democrats won't want to hold us to account for fears of irritating the battle-fatigued public.

That reminds me very much of “Donald has been” and am somewhat relieved it is momentarily quieter now. Republicans will continue to make noise in their voter base for sure but they have become castrated right now. The burden is on Democrats who really have no excuse to not fix things up, they have complete power

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#610

Post by tacon »

qwerty12345678 wrote: post #546
wcunning wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As to (3), Ken and others have also pointed out, Rudy or Sydney Powel being lawyers have a duty to know this sort of thing so there's a chance that they'll be found to have actual malice even without a finding that Rudy was knowingly lying.

Serious Question: Why is everyone assuming they're lying? And why doesn't anyone want to prove Biden won? From my perspective, the accusations he made were completely dodged by Dominion and by Democrats (since their guy was labeled the winner by the media). I'm not aware of any individual claim that was debunked via substantiating evidence. They refused to answer, refused to report it in the media, and ran full speed…

With "mountains of evidence of fraud", and more than one person alone who could have pulled this off, that means there was a conspiracy. Let's say there were a hundred people minimum in this conspiracy. When someone tells me how the election was stolen, I just ask them to name two of the conspirators. Just two, any two. Conspiracy is so much easier to prove in the courts than the actual crime. But all I get are blank stares. "Fraud!" by utterly nameless people. It's like the voting machines changed themselves.

The real tell is if these patriots keep digging to find and expose the conspirators in the "steal", or if somehow all interest in the fraud is lost when Trump is not going to be President. If their efforts will not reverse this election, how can the patriots stop from protecting the next election from the conspiracy?

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