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Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

theguardian.com

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Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#501

Post by fogetti »

_ph_ wrote: post #112
godmode2019 wrote: post #81

'Global sales' I hope everyone understands in China it is very hard to get a licence plate, the government allows you to get a licence plate if you buy a heavily subsidised electric car. The aim is to stimulate demand to develop an industry. Large cities also banned motorbikes and scooters, with the same aim. This is no way market driven demand, BYD is a very interesting company to look into. It is my understanding t…

Electric car sales are up in Germany by similar amounts. Completely without any force applied. The same in many European countries.

This claim is completely false. As others pointed out the EU applies stricter and stricter emission regulations each year forcing all manufacturers to comply.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#502

Post by fomine3 »

Xylakant wrote: post #226
Ma8ee wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is like to have a source for the statement that plug in hybrid never gets plugged in. Everyone I know who has one charges it over night and only runs it on petroleum occasionally.

All the neighbours here on the compound bought it for subsidies only - there's no charging option in the parking garage. Edit: Adding some numbers from https://www.zeit.de/mobilitaet/2020-09/plug-in-hybrid-studie... (sorry, german) 43% of the private owners use the charging option, 18% of the company owned cars. However, due to tax incentives, 63% of all cars registered per year are company owned cars. The incentives…

So it should be taxed same as hybrid car if owner doesn't have charging station at home.

Some environment group argue that lower range PHEV is evil because it's just for cheat but I against. PHEV should cover daily use range (YMMV 30-60km?) but shouldn't need much because they have engine for fallback. Equipping mostly unneeded batteries is definitely bad for environment.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#503

Post by fomine3 »

_ph_ wrote: post #184
konschubert wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The car makers are taking a loss/low margin on BEVs sales . Pricing is tuned such that they can sell enough BEVs to meet the regulated fleet efficiency, but no more than that.

Which only means that the customer is of course taking the price into account when buying new cars. As the production costs of electric cars are coming down considerably (manufacturing scaling, battery costs), the prices are coming down and very soon there will be the same margin as with petrol cars. Never mention Tesla, who don't have the problem of compensating their ICE car emissions.

EU CAFE regulation virtually increases (not efficient) ICE car price and decreases EV car price.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#504

Post by fomine3 »

magicalhippo wrote: post #24
CameronNemo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the replacement battery will have better tech!

AFAIK the main problem with the Leaf battery is that it doesn't have active thermal management[1]. I guess it's possible one could make a replacement battery pack which has an internal cooling loop, but it would be quite limited in how much heat it could get rid of through the battery case body without external radiators. Of course better batteries might heat up less when used or charged, due to lower internal resist…

It's sad that Leaf's failure makes "air cooling is bad" opinion. Leaf's approach is body contact cooling rather than air cooling. I expect properly done air cooling isn't so bad.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#505

Post by fomine3 »

speedgoose wrote: post #69
angmarsbane wrote: post #17

One thing I keep getting tripped up on with EV cars is the usability during an emergency. I grew up in SoCal when there were rolling black-outs. Just this week, a windstorm took out my parent’s power for 3 days. I don’t view electricity to be as reliable as gas. What fact am I missing that can change my view on this?

That's a very local problem that SoCal needs to work on. I can't remember having a blackout ever in my life, I live in Europe. Just keep your car charged between 50% and 80% when you are at home and it should be enough to reach the hospital or a safe place during a blackout.

Here in Japan, blackout is very rare event but Leaf and Outlander PHEV supports V2H from first release. Normally it's not needed but it's helpful when disaster happened.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#506

Post by ThomPete »

africanboy wrote: post #437
ThomPete wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The air quality in the west is better than it is in much less developed areas of the world. People live longer because of the use of fossil fuel and can live better lives spending less time on basic things like creating food and managing shelter to stay alive and they have more time doing meaningful things. Fossil fuel industry is the industry that have made it possible for us to live longer, and feed as many people…

> than it is in much less developed areas of the world I believe Amazonia air quality is much better than air quality in Milan (where I lived for 10 years). https://www.iqair.com/italy/lombardy/milano > Fossil fuel industry is the industry that have made it possible for us to live longer I'm not at war with fossil fuel industry, I was simply answering to this question > what deductions are we giving for the positive…

I was talking about the deductions for positive externalities of fossile fuel.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#507

Post by free_rms »

mcv wrote: post #386
free_rms wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huge buried assumption in this comment that democracy in general or America's system in particular is more likely to produce 'correct' decisions than China's 100 million party members and their hierarchical politics. It's interesting to compare/contrast the incentives created in each system but in light of the last 20 years of decision making, it's hard to claim America aced it.

I think a well-functioning democracy with an educated electorate will do better than China, but I wouldn't argue that the US meets those criteria. A better comparison might be the Nordic countries. If that's too much cherry-picking for you, consider that China is probably also the best-functioning autocracy in the world; plenty of autocracies are terrible.

Very well put re: the cherry picking. I wasn't so much arguing for autocracy as arguing against buying our own agitprop.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#508

Post by perryizgr8 »

djaychela wrote: post #375
perryizgr8 wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is you'll never need to replace the engine in a BMW unless you got into an accident or something like that. EV batteries will just degrade with normal usage.

That's simply not true - of many makes of car, but BMW in particular. There are lots of issues with combustion engines which can be fatal - look at the issues with vanos bits dropping into them, camchain failures, etc. I buy and sell cars as a side gig, and there are plenty of models which people like me would not touch with a barge pole because of issues like this - many of them German - and you'll find many for sal…

I'm sure there are exceptions, but engine problems are way, way less common than the accepted degradation of batteries over their lifetime. Most car engines keep working well even after running 100-200k kms. There is no "accepted" degradation into uselessness as we have for lithium batteries.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#509

Post by SwanRonson »

smeeth wrote: post #367
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect the bottom end of the market is going to disappear. Right now I could buy a car for £1000. It won't be great but it would be good enough to get somebody too and from work and the shops. That won't be feasible when a new battery costs £5000 or more.

It’s worth pointing out that the cost of a battery is effectively pre-paying for ~5 years of gas (how much you drive dependent). If you finance your used car (as many do when they buy used from a dealer) the lifetime costs and payment schedule would probably be about equivalent.

“Pre-paying” isn’t in the vocabulary for many though. You seem financially savvy, if you were to randomly sample the market how car buyers do you think have the level of resources and discipline to actually follow through with this?

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#510

Post by ClumsyPilot »

overscore wrote: post #366
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Even above 275L, it says you need a license - it doesn't say it's illegal.' Its commonly said 'it illegal to possess plutonium', but obviously someone does operate nuclear powerplants, and thise are people with the right licence. Same applies to drugs, explosices, etc. The question is - are requirements of the lisence realistic for you to meet as an average homeowner?

You can still store up to 275L without a license, which is surely enough for the use case we're discussing. I can't help but think you're nitpicking. However, I picked a random Council to see, and it looks extremely doable for a homeowner with the space to do so to get a license to store up to 2,500L. It's not even particularly expensive (£44 pa) http://www.suffolk.gov.uk/community-and-safety/suffolk-tradi...

Thank you, I have not dug into it in detail.
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