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Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

theguardian.com

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Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#321

Post by brianwawok »

ersiees wrote: post #231
Faaak wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true. Even with coal, the end-to-end emissions are better with electric cars. Proof: Poland is 800gCO₂/kWh [1]. With an average electric car (i.e. my hyundai ioniq), you average 11kWh/100km, or .11kWh/km. Taking emissions into account, that gives us 88gCO₂/km. A VW golf is 120gCO₂/km [2] [1]: https://www.electricitymap.org/map [2]: https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/cars/Car-CO2-and-fuel-economy-mp...

You might have missed the production of EVs that causes more CO2 than that of diesel cars.

Over the 20 year service life of a car, operating costs dwarf production costs.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#322

Post by aucontraire »

Multicomp wrote: post #277
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does ut cost to replace an engine on a BMW? Thats probably thr closest equivalent

According to this internet anecdote, up to $10,000 or so for parts and labor which is about what I'd expect. https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080401174600A...

Maybe back in 2011 when that was posted, if the swap was for a second hand engine out of a crashed donor car that happened to be on-hand at the independent workshop where the job was carried out.

I'd wager a guess that you'd be looking at well north of $30k for putting in a brand new engine in a Tesla-bracket BMW of semi-recent vintage.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#324

Post by perryizgr8 »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #270
mobilemidget wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the radio the other day there was a car show and they were talking about costs for battery replacements (and then it was advised to replace board computer, managing the batteries too) for a Tesla, I was shocked by the costs. I don't recall the exact but he was 30k+ euro lighter. I was interested in a electric car, but interest dropped significantly after hearing that. Maybe I don't know enough about cars to compar…

What does ut cost to replace an engine on a BMW? Thats probably thr closest equivalent

The point is you'll never need to replace the engine in a BMW unless you got into an accident or something like that. EV batteries will just degrade with normal usage.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#325

Post by morlockabove »

petra wrote: post #271
swarnie_ wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Democracies" are perfectly capable of doing evil things very efficiently as well. Lets not pretend the last 70 years have been all sunshine and roses with democracy being spread by force around the world.

Maybe evil to people who don't vote, that's true. But being evil towards voters rarely makes sense in a democracy.

It does, you just have to dress it up correctly.

You have incentives to want people to be personally weak and historically ignorant, but still able to shuffle papers and make new widgets to make gdp line go up.

It's in your best interests for the country to despise you, and the other half to despise your counterpart- so that both halves despise each other and can't coordinate toward their common interests.

You want the subgroups motivated to vote for your side by problems they face to keep voting for your side next time around, so you're incentivized to make a big show of trying to fix their problems, but not actually fix them and blame the failure on the other side.

And when the day is done, you and the opposition leader can have a drink in your mansion.

This is all evil in a molochian sense, and it all makes sense.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#327

Post by mcv »

missedthecue wrote: post #110
theshrike79 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is a country lead by engineers with unlimited power to do whatever they want. If they want all cars to be electric, that will happen. If they want a 5 million person city just there because it's logistically advantageous, then that will happen. The good thing is that they can make decisions like this. The bad thing is that they can make decisions like this.

Autocracies seem to be the most efficient form of governance. It's a shame that this also means that they can do evil things very efficiently, given no one can stop them.

Autocracies are efficient only as long as they are correct. It certainly helps if they're lead by scientists and engineers, at least for some issues. But when an autocratic government is wrong, it's nearly impossible to correct it. And every government is wrong sometimes.

As much as I like China stimulating electric cars, there are a lot of issues they're handling poorly or are being downright evil about (Uyghurs, for example).

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#328

Post by olau »

missedthecue wrote: post #110
theshrike79 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is a country lead by engineers with unlimited power to do whatever they want. If they want all cars to be electric, that will happen. If they want a 5 million person city just there because it's logistically advantageous, then that will happen. The good thing is that they can make decisions like this. The bad thing is that they can make decisions like this.

Autocracies seem to be the most efficient form of governance. It's a shame that this also means that they can do evil things very efficiently, given no one can stop them.

I can recommend "Seeing like a State" for more information about this. I don't think they are.

But I also don't think you can make sweeping generalizations about these things - they are statistical phenomenons, governed by a myriad of interactions. You'll find some things work better in a system that statistically would predict a worse outcome.

Unless you close your eyes for ideological reasons and pretend they don't exist. :)

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#329

Post by cookieswumchorr »

petra wrote: post #267
dfgdghdf wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Efficient to what end? The whole purpose of representative democracy is that we disagree on what we are trying to achieve, but still need to have a somewhat coherent plan. Autocracies are "efficient" only in the sense that they skip a bulk of the work.

That's the theory. But at least in the economic sphere, it seems that democracy doesn't have that much power, capitalism seems to call most of the shots. At least with autocracy, there's more unity, so there's somewhat bigger chance to restrain capitalism.

to restrain capitalism in favour of what/whom? if you leave out democracy, the government no longer works for you, it becomes a power acting in its own interest just like the capitalists.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#330

Post by mcv »

nicoburns wrote: post #310
kybernetikos wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> strong collective identity This makes a society weaker - it's effectively a monoculture that restricts the data available to the decision makers. It also reduces a societies ability to innovate in art, culture and eventually technology and science - innovation requires the ability to take an outside view, to be self-critical, and a society that is too busy forging a 'strong collective identity' will make it harder…

> This makes a society weaker I think there's some truth to this. But rampant individualism also makes society weaker. It reduces a societies ability to collaborate.

As with most things, you need to find a balance between the two. All-or-nothing is rarely a good approach, no matter what you're talking about. Everything taken to extremes turns bad.
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