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Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

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Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#371

Post by JshWright »

eplanit wrote: post #223
yesdocs wrote: post #8

I hope whatever happens with these lawsuits it chills the baseless accusations of voter fraud used to undermine voter confidence in our democracy

Yes, it's baseless allegations of collusion with Russia that we accept as the reason for undermining confidence in our democracy.

The Mueller report clearly stated that Russia had active efforts to influence the 2016 election, the Trump campaign was aware of those efforts, and the Trump campaign expected to benefit from those efforts.

Are you claiming that you're more informed than Robert Mueller?

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#372

Post by jansan »

legerdemain wrote: post #226
aww_dang wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps a more pertinent question comes from the perspective of realpolitik. Which is more damaging to US political institutions, having an illegitimate president or admitting that the election was stolen? I'd wager an admission of election changing fraud would make it almost impossible to recover any trust in political institutions. What would be the next steps from admitting that the election was fraudulent? Given…

The plan was enacted over the weekend... Only you never saw it. Biden, his cabinet, and tons of both Dem and Republican senators and other officials were arrested. Proof of their vast crimes was shown. They were court martialed and found guilty. However, it was decided this was too much for the American people to accept. Overturning the election and showing the crimes of these politicians could lead to Civil War. So…

Bonus points for creativity. But since Biden has killed Keystone XL, banned fracking and unleashed the trannies onto women's sport, I doubt that The Donald still holds all the power.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#373

Post by xerxespoy »

Be great for threads like these if HN had both:

1) A block function so we could cut the massively-upvoted, one-sided comments and get to the impartial or contrary information buried underneath them.

2) A "unfade" button to see the massively-downvoted comments.

I've generally found when threads take on this imbalanced and highly-polarised state, the stuff on the top isn't the cream.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#374

Post by JakeTheAndroid »

cwkoss wrote: post #252
JakeTheAndroid wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would security researchers or watchdogs go around and say things publicly without evidence to defend their claims? Because thats what opened up Rudy for this lawsuit. He made unsubstantiated claims that possibly damaged the reputation of the company. How would this be used against researchers or watchdogs in your opinion?

Voting Machine Company: "Our machines are 100% secure. The security consultant we paid to tell us that agrees." Researcher: "Your machines have USB ports exposed, can flash firmware, connected to the internet, don't produce an auditable paper trail, and I hacked into a machine personally. 100% secure is demonstrably false." Voting Machine Company: "Well, a third party verified that it is 100% secure so we're going to…

Okay, but that wouldn't open up the researcher for a lawsuit, it would just provide the company with a PR leg to stand on. Nothing about this case is similar to what you outlined, and would not meet the legal requirements for a successful libel or slander case.

If any company comes out and says the product 100% secure, the tech community basically scoffs at them. It's not a good PR strategy for a company anyways. Now, relying on the reputation of another firm through audits is a totally normal way of doing business. This does not compete with researchers, and has by and large included researchers (stuff like Bug Bounty/Responsible Disclosure programs) as a good control. So any researcher looking for this stuff would likely have a protected way to disclose their findings.

Further, this is supported by another compliance body in the SEC via SOX. There has to be a protected whistleblower program for publicly traded companies. So, the ability to disclose security gaps is not neutered in any way by this court case, no matter how it plays out.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#375

Post by wlesieutre »

purchaceallsus wrote: post #355
wlesieutre wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I haven't seen any attempted defense of it yet Ok but did you look? https://www.wsbtv.com/news/politics/georgia-election-officia...

Isn't this contradicted by reporters at the time saying that they were sent home for the night? Do we have video and audio of the event in question? edit: rather than downvoting me, please engage with the question so others can learn.

The ballots were on camera in the room the entire time, if reporters had been sent home they still wouldn't have appeared out of a mystery suitcase. They were sealed on camera, then unsealed on camera, and counted on camera. They have been counted and recounted and recounted.

I don't know if reporters were "sent home" as you are claiming, or if they "left" as described by this video when election employees were initially closing up for the night, but either way the monitors and media saw those ballots go into the boxes and Giuliani was still lying about where they came from.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#376

Post by dstola »

Instead of filing massive law suits, why doesn't Dominion attempt to prove, without a shadow of a doubt, that the machines were _not_ biased with technical evidence.

I feel that open sourcing their code would definitely do the trick. It is kinda baffling that something as important as an election is ran on closed-source proprietary codebase.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#377

Post by AnthonyMouse »

rtkwe wrote: post #354
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most significant cases were dismissed on procedural issues without reaching the merits. That doesn't necessarily mean they had merit, but arbitrarily many procedural dismissals don't show that one way or the other. I feel like this is the problem with the discourse right now. It's understandable why you're making that argument, because the media has been saying that for months now. Because in fact a large number…

It's still super relevant to note that whereever they were in court Rudy et al were very careful to say we're not alleging or prosecuting fraud here because they could be hit with perjury for lying to the court. When not under the treat of perjury is when the election was a fraud.

As far as I know he only said that in the Pennsylvania case, because they had quite a strong argument there that the rules changes made in Pennsylvania violated their state constitution, and then given limited time/resources they went with the argument there that was easier to prove. But that was one of the cases dismissed over procedure. The courts essentially said they should have complained about it before the election instead of after.

So this is another example of the same thing. Rhetorically effective if you don't look at the details, so media stories everywhere, but not convincing to the other side.

And part of this is a problem specifically because they never really got to have a trial and do discovery and all of that. Because if you go through the whole process then it comes out one way or the other. But if the cases get dismissed on procedure then you have one side saying "all your cases were dismissed so shut up" and the other side saying they never actually got their day in court and nothing to ever reconcile them because both statements are true.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#378

Post by tunesmith »

purchaceallsus wrote: post #349
tunesmith wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can create a sworn affidavit that says you suspected someone did something evil. It's a true statement that doesn't prove someone did something evil.

Did you read the affidavits? They include statements of fact, not just "I felt it was wrong." They can therefore be disproven with material evidence. If they are disproven with material evidence then that person will go to jail.

This does not imply that "If the person does not go to jail, then the person was telling the truth."

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#379

Post by astrange »

dionian wrote: post #312
yesdocs wrote: post #8

I hope whatever happens with these lawsuits it chills the baseless accusations of voter fraud used to undermine voter confidence in our democracy

Shutting people up is going to do the opposite. We need to debunk their claims piece by piece to convince the people that are somehow convinced by the evidence

Most people don't actually believe things or care if they're consistent (and rightly so.) They just say stuff to hear themselves talk.

The correct answer is to prevent them from saying things.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#380

Post by tw04 »

HelloMcFly wrote: post #297
unanswered wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not responding to the argument at all. Scott Adams' credibility is irrelevant. The video was shown for the segments of it depicting actual events as they happened, not for the segments featuring Adams.

Your original comment is flagged and I can't see it so did not watch the video. I believe my comment is relevant to the one I replied to: I do not trust Scott Adams to present his content with any integrity at all, and so sending me a video he clipped together to make a point is not what I'd consider "good evidence". He does not act in good faith, he works backwards from a conclusion. If Steven Miller made a similar…

You didn't miss anything, it is Adams trying to prove voter fraud by taking videos out of context that have been fact checked already - but he added scary music and called the people doing their jobs "bullies" so it must be true.

To anyone else clicking this, it has been disproven repeatedly, Adams doesn't care that he's spreading lies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNM3K0cH2tc

A simple fact check: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/11/10/fac...

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