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Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

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Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#221

Post by dboreham »

worldsayshi wrote: post #210
pwinnski wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voting machines without a paper trail have been deemed unreliable, and still should be deemed unreliable. These machines are used to generate an authoritative paper ballot, which is exactly what critics have demanded. A prevailing opinion about apples doesn't apply to oranges.

I don't see the point of a voting machine with a paper trail. You get preliminary statistics a bit faster and you get people used to the idea of voting machines.

The paper emulates a blockchain.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#222

Post by gamblor956 »

throwaway10923 wrote: post #208
gamblor956 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even a cursory review of the Ramsland report you linked to indicates it was largely fiction. From the politifact review: Ramsland lists "Fenton" without specifying Fenton City or Fenton Township. But the turnout Ramsland lists for Fenton does not match the turnout in either jurisdiction. The actual turnout statistics reveal the inaccuracy of Ramsland’s numbers. His figure for North Muskegon is off by a factor of 10:…

"A staggering number of votes required adjudication.This was a 2020 issue not seen in previous election cycles stillstored on the server.This is caused by intentional errors in the system. The intentional errors lead to bulk adjudication of ballots withno oversight, no transparency or audit trail. Our examination of the server logs indicates that this high error rate was incongruent with patterns from previous years.…

Yes, all made up.

First paragraph: simply made up by Ramsland, by basically treating all the times a ballot was entered incorrectly (such as upside down) as a vote requiring adjudication.

Second paragraph: False. The person in charge of updating the system...was a Republican. Also, the voting machines were in compliance with federal voting system standards. The machine that was not updated prior to the election was the computer that the voting machines connected to, which was updated after the election during vote tabulation. (A hand recount of the paper receipts printed on Election Day confirmed the post-update count.)

Third paragraph: Also fiction, and quite literally contradicts your first paragraph. (They can't both possibly be true; either the adjudication logs were there and there were a lot of adjudicated votes, or they weren't, and the first paragraph is made up.) Also, the machines were audited after the election...by Republicans.

On a further note, neither NASA or MIT has any record of Ramsland or any of his companies, doing any work for them as he claims (and which forms the basis of his supposed technical expertise).

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#223

Post by eplanit »

yesdocs wrote: post #8

I hope whatever happens with these lawsuits it chills the baseless accusations of voter fraud used to undermine voter confidence in our democracy

Yes, it's baseless allegations of collusion with Russia that we accept as the reason for undermining confidence in our democracy.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#224

Post by cwkoss »

I've heard reports of cronyism and incompetence around Georgia's electronic voting going back several years (don't remember if Dominion was the company used back then). Slightly worried this precedent could not just be used against crackpots, but also legitimate voting security researchers and watchdogs.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#225

Post by wcunning »

tptacek wrote: post #134

Ken White has been talking about the potential for this suit for a couple weeks now. He spends a lot of time talking about what isn't defamation --- people use defamation suits and threats thereof to chill free speech, and he's a 1st Amendment guy --- but the Dominion cases are apparently examples of very serious defamation cases. The core of defamation is (1) a false statement of purported fact that (2) causes damag…

As to (3), Ken and others have also pointed out, Rudy or Sydney Powel being lawyers have a duty to know this sort of thing so there's a chance that they'll be found to have actual malice even without a finding that Rudy was knowingly lying.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#226

Post by legerdemain »

aww_dang wrote: post #148
adictator wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would anyone know they are baseless unless a proper investigation is conducted independently? What about the thousands of sworn affidavits? Surely, ALL of them can't be lying.

Perhaps a more pertinent question comes from the perspective of realpolitik. Which is more damaging to US political institutions, having an illegitimate president or admitting that the election was stolen? I'd wager an admission of election changing fraud would make it almost impossible to recover any trust in political institutions. What would be the next steps from admitting that the election was fraudulent? Given…

The plan was enacted over the weekend... Only you never saw it.

Biden, his cabinet, and tons of both Dem and Republican senators and other officials were arrested. Proof of their vast crimes was shown. They were court martialed and found guilty.

However, it was decided this was too much for the American people to accept. Overturning the election and showing the crimes of these politicians could lead to Civil War.

So an agreement was reached: Biden and other deep state elements wI'll be allowed to move freely and serve their terms. President Trump would "concede" and leave office. But this is all for appearances.

Behind the scenes, Donald J. Trump is still President. This plan, known as SHADOWPREZ, was seen as a last resort. But it worked.

Anything that happens in the next 4 years is actually President Trumps doing.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#227

Post by JakeTheAndroid »

cwkoss wrote: post #224

I've heard reports of cronyism and incompetence around Georgia's electronic voting going back several years (don't remember if Dominion was the company used back then). Slightly worried this precedent could not just be used against crackpots, but also legitimate voting security researchers and watchdogs.

Would security researchers or watchdogs go around and say things publicly without evidence to defend their claims? Because thats what opened up Rudy for this lawsuit. He made unsubstantiated claims that possibly damaged the reputation of the company.

How would this be used against researchers or watchdogs in your opinion?

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#228

Post by tunesmith »

yesdocs wrote: post #8

I hope whatever happens with these lawsuits it chills the baseless accusations of voter fraud used to undermine voter confidence in our democracy

The problem is it - not the lawsuit itself, but the public perception of it - could come back to bite the other side. There have been plenty of good reasons to suspect electronic voting in the past, at least in the absence of verifiable paper backups and regular random sampling recounts of those paper ballots. Which is still a pretty rare practice, isn't it? In the absence of those standards, it's still reasonable to have suspicion even if you don't have evidence; the entire problem is that you're kept from gathering the evidence.

The biggest reason to doubt the "voter fraud" theories this time around is because of who is making the complaints, not because the voting companies (or the laws surrounding e-voting) are beyond reproach.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#229

Post by HelloMcFly »

NDizzle wrote: post #123
rm999 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I usually avoid commenting on political stuff, but my advice is to please find a better source for information than Scott Adams. He's a smart guy, but he is a strong proponent of "persuasion", i.e. changing people's minds is more valuable to him than presenting the facts accurately. This video is a classic example of his persuasion style, which is to make sloppy claims with flimsy evidence simply to make his opponent…

Are you saying that I should track down and link each video of each of those individual situations that happened? And put it in a post on HN to be downvoted exactly as much as the Scott Adams video? Pardon me for getting the exact same results for like 1/80th the amount of work. Go ahead and dismiss all of those videos because they are in a supercut featuring Scott Adams. You do you.

It's either that or find more credible evidence. Scott Adams isn't credible, period. While that doesn't make him de facto wrong on any argument, it means you cannot expect the recipients of your message to put the work in (that you've chosen not to) to validate whether this time he's operating in good faith.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#230

Post by kingnothing »

covidthrow wrote: post #102
tgb wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern machines differ from old ones is a very significant way: they give you a paper ballot that you - the voter - can verify before submitting.

And how many people do you think review that paper? Probably as many as review their grocery store receipts, I'd guess. Which is to say, practically none.

Probably everyone. I voted on a Dominion machine this year. It prints out a full size piece of paper on thick stock with big font saying who you're voting for. You then have to carry that piece of paper to the ballot counting machine and stand in line for a minute before it's your turn to put your vote in the counter. The piece of paper isn't a receipt, it's your actual ballot. In the case of the elections this year, all of those were manually hand counted as well as being electronically counted and the counts were identical.
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