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Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

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Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#281

Post by dboreham »

ardy42 wrote: post #212
justinzollars wrote: post #63

I worked on campaigns for 10 years, I was an elected Hillary Rodham Clinton DNC Delegate and I witnessed real problems that should be of concern of every American. Votes should be cast in person, with identification and counted by hand. If Democracy is sacred we can wait a few days for results we can all trust. The system is clearly breaking down today where 75% of Republicans do not trust the election results and 75…

> 75% of Republicans do not trust the election results and If their mistrust is based on crazy, there's nothing that can be done to fix it except to cure that crazy. And I think it's based on crazy: the reasoning seems to break down to: (A) belief that Donald Trump won implying (B) the election must be fraudulent (since it didn't confirm A).

It's been very interesting to observe because although I had heard the notion that malignant narcissists "can't accept ever losing" I realize I hadn't truly perceived what that entails. They invent an entire reality, Truman Show / The Matrix / Inception-style, where they didn't lose. And of course that alternative reality by definition has to feature some reason why there's a new dude in the WH now.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#282

Post by DonHopkins »

Maarten88 wrote: post #241
not2b wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the correction, but it doesn't change my point: the amount of actual fraud was too small to make a difference by four orders of magnitude.

On top of that the fraud seems to actually have been committed mostly by the side that is accusing the other side of it. Which makes sense, when you hear from your news sources that the other party is committing massive fraud, that gives some people an excuse to do so too.

Which was Trump's original intention for claiming the other side was committing voter fraud even before 2016, to encourage his supporters to do it "too" for him. And it worked.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#283

Post by darkfirefly »

CydeWeys wrote: post #48
rpiguyshy wrote: post #14

before donald trump was ever in office, i always believed that these voting machines are complete bullshit. our entire voting system is bullshit. and it would be easy to fix. these machines have been shown to be massively flawed and vulnerable to hacking/tinkering. again, this was my opinion before donald trump was elected.

Dominion voting machines use human-readable printed ballots as a backup auditing mechanism. In all of the disputed states these paper ballots were hand counted (sometimes multiple times) and the original electronically reported results were confirmed. So how are these voting machines complete bullshit exactly? What do you think the mechanism of attack is, and do you have any sources other than just your speculation?

https://media.defcon.org/DEF%20CON%2027/voting-village-repor...

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#284

Post by unanswered »

dukeofdoom wrote: post #240

Rudy has a YouTube channel, you can hear him make his allegations and judge if it amounts to defamation. Most of them seem to be carefully phrased. https://www.youtube.com/c/RudyWGiuliani/videos Of all the claims that stuck out to me is the suitcase video, since it time corresponds with a one sided spike of votes.

I wish someone would honestly respond to the suitcase video, but I haven't seen any attempted defense of it yet. I would really prefer not to believe Giuliani, and yet that video is pretty damn hard to get around.

None of it matters, of course, because realpolitik, and the biggest sin of the viking cosplayers was believing that any of this evidence matters.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#285

Post by krick »

dukeofdoom wrote: post #240

Rudy has a YouTube channel, you can hear him make his allegations and judge if it amounts to defamation. Most of them seem to be carefully phrased. https://www.youtube.com/c/RudyWGiuliani/videos Of all the claims that stuck out to me is the suitcase video, since it time corresponds with a one sided spike of votes.

That's a lot of footage. Can you point to some more specific example of these "carefully phrased allegations" to check out, if I'm mildly curious, but not that interested to spend much time investigating?

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#286

Post by spankalee »

dukeofdoom wrote: post #269
CydeWeys wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dominion voting machines use human-readable printed ballots as a backup auditing mechanism. In all of the disputed states these paper ballots were hand counted (sometimes multiple times) and the original electronically reported results were confirmed. So how are these voting machines complete bullshit exactly? What do you think the mechanism of attack is, and do you have any sources other than just your speculation?

This has the actual data for the hand recount. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/19/us/elections/... In Floyd county more than 2,000 votes switched sides out of roughly 40,000 votes. So it now has a real world demonstrated error rate of 0.5% which is not insignificant. For example, I would not trust a calculator with a 0.5% error to do my taxes. I wouldn't even us it on an exam.

No votes switched sides. Missing votes were added to both sides because of missing memory cards, or because:

> Floyd County officials discovered about 2,400 ballots that election workers neglected to rescan after a scanner failed and results could not be retrieved from memory cards. Officials attributed the error to “gross incompetence” on the part of the county’s elections director.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#287

Post by mbg721 »

usefulcat wrote: post #158
justinzollars wrote: post #63

I worked on campaigns for 10 years, I was an elected Hillary Rodham Clinton DNC Delegate and I witnessed real problems that should be of concern of every American. Votes should be cast in person, with identification and counted by hand. If Democracy is sacred we can wait a few days for results we can all trust. The system is clearly breaking down today where 75% of Republicans do not trust the election results and 75…

> The system is clearly breaking down today where 75% of Republicans do not trust the election results and 75% of Democrats didn't trust the 2016 election. To the extent that's true, it has far less to do with voting machines than with self-selected information bubbles.

This was also an election where for months, everyone had nothing to do except sit around and consume filter-bubble news.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#288

Post by HNfriend234 »

seanalltogether wrote: post #43

I remember a lot of accusation about Diebold voting back in the 2000s, and concerns about lack of auditability. My understanding is that newer systems now let you vote at a machine, but it spits out a receipt that the voter can verify and the county can hold on to for the sake of audits and recounts. Is this standard now, or on a state by state basis?

Yup. I think there is room for a lot more transparency and "double-checks" so to speaks built into voting going forward. Allow each voter to audit their own vote. We have the technology to allow for this to happen so there really is no excuse. This is really how you build confidence is the voting system. Anyone who is truly skeptical can cast their own vote and double-check it though the system.

I know quite a few people that fully believe that voting is effectively a sham now.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#289

Post by triceratops »

roenxi wrote: post #248
tunesmith wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is it - not the lawsuit itself, but the public perception of it - could come back to bite the other side. There have been plenty of good reasons to suspect electronic voting in the past, at least in the absence of verifiable paper backups and regular random sampling recounts of those paper ballots. Which is still a pretty rare practice, isn't it? In the absence of those standards, it's still reasonable to…

More to the point - if there is actual voter fraud at some point it will need to announced, communicated and investigated. Electronic voting systems can be used to remove humans from the loop and that has real potential to undermine the election system. There needs to be a very high tolerance of criticism towards voting machines and the companies that make them. Ordinary standards of transparency are not enough, for…

> There needs to be a very high tolerance of criticism towards voting machines and the companies that make them.

There is. It's called the 1st Amendment.

If the company is suing for defamation, that is also their right. Giuliani isn't some small fish being silenced by a defamation suit.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#290

Post by tunesmith »

teraflop wrote: post #254
tunesmith wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is it - not the lawsuit itself, but the public perception of it - could come back to bite the other side. There have been plenty of good reasons to suspect electronic voting in the past, at least in the absence of verifiable paper backups and regular random sampling recounts of those paper ballots. Which is still a pretty rare practice, isn't it? In the absence of those standards, it's still reasonable to…

> the entire problem is that you're kept from gathering the evidence. Well, there's also the fact that the folks advancing these theories are insisting that they're being "kept from gathering the evidence", when in reality much of what they're saying is contradicted by evidence. For example, the instances cited in the lawsuit where Giuliani and others continued to insist that Dominion voting machines had changed the…

Well sure, if we're going to conflate arguments in good faith with arguments in bad faith, we won't really get anywhere... the point is that without doing manual recounts it's hard to gather evidence of possible flaws in an electronic count, and you can't always count on the recount happening. In contrast, Georgia's recount did happen, so they were able to gather evidence, and didn't find any... so yes, of course that's a different thing entirely.
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