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Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

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Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#241

Post by Maarten88 »

not2b wrote: post #136
tedunangst wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fact check: the count for PA currently stands at 3. https://www.citizensvoice.com/news/crime-emergencies/forty-f... https://www.phillyvoice.com/voter-fraud-pennsylvania-trump-e... https://www.dailylocal.com/news/chester-county-man-facing-tr...

Thanks for the correction, but it doesn't change my point: the amount of actual fraud was too small to make a difference by four orders of magnitude.

On top of that the fraud seems to actually have been committed mostly by the side that is accusing the other side of it.

Which makes sense, when you hear from your news sources that the other party is committing massive fraud, that gives some people an excuse to do so too.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#242

Post by charonn0 »

cwkoss wrote: post #224

I've heard reports of cronyism and incompetence around Georgia's electronic voting going back several years (don't remember if Dominion was the company used back then). Slightly worried this precedent could not just be used against crackpots, but also legitimate voting security researchers and watchdogs.

Legitimate researchers and watchdogs would produce their research and evidence to back up their claims.

That is what makes them legitimate.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#243

Post by supergirl »

ncallaway wrote: post #55
rpiguyshy wrote: post #14

before donald trump was ever in office, i always believed that these voting machines are complete bullshit. our entire voting system is bullshit. and it would be easy to fix. these machines have been shown to be massively flawed and vulnerable to hacking/tinkering. again, this was my opinion before donald trump was elected.

The good news is election security researchers mostly agree with you. The prevailing opinion of election security professionals is that State election systems should be designed assuming the machines are insecure and the process should be tolerant to that fault. That's why many states that use electronic voting or tabulation produce a voter verifiable paper trail. That means, when you're done voting the machine gives…

checking a random sample is not enough for the US election system. in a few states it's decided by a few thousand votes

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#244

Post by sct202 »

worldsayshi wrote: post #210
pwinnski wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voting machines without a paper trail have been deemed unreliable, and still should be deemed unreliable. These machines are used to generate an authoritative paper ballot, which is exactly what critics have demanded. A prevailing opinion about apples doesn't apply to oranges.

I don't see the point of a voting machine with a paper trail. You get preliminary statistics a bit faster and you get people used to the idea of voting machines.

If someone is going to manipulate the results, they now have to change both the paper results and the electronic results instead of just one or the other.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#245

Post by adrianmonk »

adictator wrote: post #147
onion2k wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely, ALL of them can't be lying. Why not?

Coz there is a significant risk of penalty, of jail time. That's what a sworn affidavit is, is it not?

Where was this risk aversion during the storming of the Capitol on January 6th?

I think what you say is true of most people, but it seems very clear that we have a group which doesn't behave like most people.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#246

Post by onion2k »

adictator wrote: post #147
onion2k wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely, ALL of them can't be lying. Why not?

Coz there is a significant risk of penalty, of jail time. That's what a sworn affidavit is, is it not?

All that means is that there are thousands of people willing to risk jail time if they're shown to have lied. It says nothing about whether they lied or not.

For what it's worth I imagine many of them think they're telling the truth, or at least are honestly putting their name to something they've been told and believe. That also doesn't mean they're right though.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#247

Post by atoav »

tunesmith wrote: post #228
yesdocs wrote: post #8

I hope whatever happens with these lawsuits it chills the baseless accusations of voter fraud used to undermine voter confidence in our democracy

The problem is it - not the lawsuit itself, but the public perception of it - could come back to bite the other side. There have been plenty of good reasons to suspect electronic voting in the past, at least in the absence of verifiable paper backups and regular random sampling recounts of those paper ballots. Which is still a pretty rare practice, isn't it? In the absence of those standards, it's still reasonable to…

Another one of these issues that get easier once you have 3 major parties competing nationwide.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#248

Post by roenxi »

tunesmith wrote: post #228
yesdocs wrote: post #8

I hope whatever happens with these lawsuits it chills the baseless accusations of voter fraud used to undermine voter confidence in our democracy

The problem is it - not the lawsuit itself, but the public perception of it - could come back to bite the other side. There have been plenty of good reasons to suspect electronic voting in the past, at least in the absence of verifiable paper backups and regular random sampling recounts of those paper ballots. Which is still a pretty rare practice, isn't it? In the absence of those standards, it's still reasonable to…

More to the point - if there is actual voter fraud at some point it will need to announced, communicated and investigated. Electronic voting systems can be used to remove humans from the loop and that has real potential to undermine the election system.

There needs to be a very high tolerance of criticism towards voting machines and the companies that make them. Ordinary standards of transparency are not enough, for example.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#249

Post by trhway »

dukeofdoom wrote: post #240

Rudy has a YouTube channel, you can hear him make his allegations and judge if it amounts to defamation. Most of them seem to be carefully phrased. https://www.youtube.com/c/RudyWGiuliani/videos Of all the claims that stuck out to me is the suitcase video, since it time corresponds with a one sided spike of votes.

With DVS being SolarWinds client who needs the suitcases :)

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#250

Post by flukus »

legerdemain wrote: post #226
aww_dang wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps a more pertinent question comes from the perspective of realpolitik. Which is more damaging to US political institutions, having an illegitimate president or admitting that the election was stolen? I'd wager an admission of election changing fraud would make it almost impossible to recover any trust in political institutions. What would be the next steps from admitting that the election was fraudulent? Given…

The plan was enacted over the weekend... Only you never saw it. Biden, his cabinet, and tons of both Dem and Republican senators and other officials were arrested. Proof of their vast crimes was shown. They were court martialed and found guilty. However, it was decided this was too much for the American people to accept. Overturning the election and showing the crimes of these politicians could lead to Civil War. So…

Now Trump is the deep state.
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