Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's the word that refers to Jewish people?
https://www.jta.org/2019/09/25/culture/what-does-jew-down-me...
Oh. Oh wow. Thanks, man.
Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing
201–210 of 360 posts
Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing
#202Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Not to say the general approach is bad, but I think the cost side is overplayed. Not sure why I, as an immigrant to Europe myself, should pay cover the cost for illegal aliens while I cannot provide properly for my own relatives in my home country. It is unconscionable.
We live in an imperfect world with many constraints and trade-offs. Why did you have to emigrate, while others were already born into lucky countries? Why are some people denied the right to emigrate? Life is various shades of unfair and we're more likely to make a better world if we optimize for well being rather than fairness (of which there are multiple competing and contradictory definitions).
> Why did you have to emigrate, while others were already born into lucky countries?
A lot of people worked very hard to make the place I immigrated from the place it is today, most of them are still there. No luck about it.
> Why are some people denied the right to emigrate?
As far as I know all EU countries give everyone equal rights to immigrate. Maybe you should check your facts.
> Life is various shades of unfair and we're more likely to make a better world if we optimize for well being rather than fairness
How exactly is it optimizing for well being to ignore the corruption, injustice and bad governance in Africa?
Europeans should open their eyes, the world is collapsing around them while they sign treaties with China which is actively destroying Africa while committing genocide in their own country - and Europe does not care. Russia is busy oppressing their own people and it's neighbors while Germany is building a pipeline to them. This behaviour of Europe is pathetic cowardice, grow a backbone. Spending my tax money on illegal immigrants does not make the world fairer.
Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
Worth noting, before the city council legalized homeless camping there were literally zero tents.
Did you have no homeless people, or were they still sleeping rough, just without a tarp to keep the wind and the rain off their heads?
It's more homeless people [1]. I mean, it's really a lot of people. It's pretty unmistakable.
The tent cities do make them more noticeable, though. Also, the police used to be able to roust people illegally camping, so if you had somewhere else to go, you'd have to go, or else go to the shelter.
Now people have the option to refuse the alternatives. So maybe visible homelessness has climbed more than actual homelessness.
[1] https://www.austinmonitor.com/stories/2020/05/austin-sees-10...
Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing
#204Note that the "homeless" people in Finland are mainly people who refuse to accept support from the social welfare, this is because they prefer to get drunk instead of spending it on food and rent. The social welfare eventually suggests a different system for such people: pay the rent for them and give a special card that can be used for anything except alcohol and cigarette. If the people keep refusing that other opt…
This is literally what people say about San Francisco as well: "They don't want the help" etc. etc. It's like the same thing.
Except in San Fransisco there are tens of thousands of homeless. The entire country of Finland has a fraction of that number.
There are indeed some homeless who would prefer to be on the street. There are also tens of thousands who are mentally ill, or just incapable of taking care of rent/ electric/ water, etc.
Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Such people are very rare in Finland in reality however, Given the severity of Finnish winters, I'm not surprised. Try a similar approach in, say, Hawaii or the Bahamas, and see how many homeless you'll see roaming around.
This is what I thought... I suppose living on the street in such a climate can be deadly even. Definitely reduce life expectancy.
It is. Same in Canada. Typically in April a number of bodies turn up that were buried in snowbanks.
Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing
#206I'm in the US. I was homeless as a teenager (not by choice). I live adjacent to a major homeless community (not by design). My ex left our family to join the homeless community (she struggles with mh issues). I have some observations.
We could sharply reduce homeless numbers here if we had in-patient mental health facilities (for non-wealthy), comprehensive housing aid and politically powerful job placement programs.
I just looked up our jail budget and inmate population; we pay ~$25k/inmate/year (excluding court & police costs). That money gets us a pretty solid guarantee that arrested mentally ill people will reoffend, given how many entrenched systems there are to make sure that convicted people are locked out of most jobs and housing.
Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
While there's truth to that, it's worth noting that most of those homeless people are suffering from ill mental health and/or substance dependence. You make it sound like they just shrugged and decided that that's the life they want, but I don't think that's how people end up homeless. There are decisions involved, but they're probably not quite as voluntary as that.
Those people are given help, but if they refuse that, there's nothing you can really do. People are only forced if they start being dangerous to other people.
> People are only forced if they start being dangerous to other people
Really this definition needs to be more strict. In San Francisco, you could be drugged up, throw needles and broken alcohol bottles on the street, openly defecate, and this behavior is still considered not dangerous.
A better way to deal with this is to allow people to reject welfare, but if they do, they still need to live as a decent member of the society. No littering, no public nuisance (shouting, spitting, harassing people), maintaining hygiene (no public urination/defecation, no risk of disease transmission etc.), no permanent encroachment of public property and so forth. Otherwise, it just ends up in a slippery slope that creates a sinkhole of billions of dollars in costs to the economy, at the expense of others.
Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing
#208Note that the "homeless" people in Finland are mainly people who refuse to accept support from the social welfare, this is because they prefer to get drunk instead of spending it on food and rent. The social welfare eventually suggests a different system for such people: pay the rent for them and give a special card that can be used for anything except alcohol and cigarette. If the people keep refusing that other opt…
I have read stories about almost any European country wherein it is claimed that homelessness is a choice, and that there are facilities that the homeless aren't utilizing, because they præfer to the homeless or are plain stupid. In many of those cases the actual situation is more complicated and the actual protocol is so involved and complicated that it is very hard for a homeless man to research.
Many homeless reject shelters because they would have to give up much of their personal possessions, can't have a pet, live under tight restrictions, and deal with theft from other homeless people in the shelter.
Giving people small, secure apartments would solve many of these issues along with many emergency hospital visits and many other issues.
Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
We have real life data. Cities in California are spending north of $50,000 a year per homeless person (higher than finland's median income!) and the problem is still as bad as ever. The climate is also dry and warm 330 days a year.
except we also have additional data from overseas. Australia has comparatively mild winters and my family is originally from Queensland where some of the "worst" towns for unemployment and disadvantage clearly have a bit of a "paradise" effect (that is to say, if you're going to live on unemployment, you might as well live where there's good weather, fishing and swimming year round and prices are a bit cheaper than t…
It sounds like you're aware that, according to official statistics, homelessness is higher per capita in Australia than in California or the US as a whole. I'm open to the idea that this might be due to definitional or measurement problems, but you've gotta explain what those problems are, not just assert that they must exist.
The obvious alternative explanation is that Americans might simply be less tolerant of measures to decrease the visibility of homeless.
Re: Finland has slashed homelessness; the rest of Europe is failing
#210Earlier quoted context omitted.
We have real life data. Cities in California are spending north of $50,000 a year per homeless person (higher than finland's median income!) and the problem is still as bad as ever. The climate is also dry and warm 330 days a year.
except we also have additional data from overseas. Australia has comparatively mild winters and my family is originally from Queensland where some of the "worst" towns for unemployment and disadvantage clearly have a bit of a "paradise" effect (that is to say, if you're going to live on unemployment, you might as well live where there's good weather, fishing and swimming year round and prices are a bit cheaper than t…
https://www.sbs.com.au/topics/voices/culture/article/2017/07...
"Homelessness then, in Australia, is more than lacking a roof over your head, it is also the absence of those features associated with “home”: permanence, security, and the freedom to come and go."
"If the world were to accept Australia’s definition and include everyone with inadequate shelter, the number would exceed 1.6 billion – roughly 20 percent of the population. Also excluded from official figures are the world’s 65 million displaced refugees in temporary accommodation."