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Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

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Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#231

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ashtonkem wrote: post #191
mbg721 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good, then prosecute him for the actual crimes he committed.

I'm confused; you seem to be arguing two opposite positions. You say that a civil defamation lawsuit by Dominion is suppressing dissent, and that Giuliani should be criminally prosecuted for unspecified crimes. You do realize that the latter has a much larger chilling effect, right? It's not consistent to argue against a civil case for being too chilling, and then argue for a criminal case over the same conduct.

> You say that a civil defamation lawsuit by Dominion is suppressing dissent, and that Giuliani should be criminally prosecuted for unspecified crimes

In case someone thinks this is splitting hairs, I fully support Dominion suing Giuliani for his alleged defamation. I would be somewhat horrified at the Attorney General attempting to put him in jail for it, ceteris paribus.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#232

Post by tunesmith »

adictator wrote: post #147
onion2k wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely, ALL of them can't be lying. Why not?

Coz there is a significant risk of penalty, of jail time. That's what a sworn affidavit is, is it not?

You can create a sworn affidavit that says you suspected someone did something evil. It's a true statement that doesn't prove someone did something evil.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#233

Post by [deleted] »

pupdogg wrote: post #111

The article states that at one point in time, at a voluntary hearing in Michigan, Dominion CEO said "It is technologically impossible to see votes being counted in real-time or to flip them". I think that everybody here is fairly technically inclined so what are your guys thoughts on this? My personal opinion is that using the term "technologically impossible" in this instance was not a good idea. If @antirez is read…

[deleted]

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#234

Post by vsareto »

wcunning wrote: post #225
tptacek wrote: post #134

Ken White has been talking about the potential for this suit for a couple weeks now. He spends a lot of time talking about what isn't defamation --- people use defamation suits and threats thereof to chill free speech, and he's a 1st Amendment guy --- but the Dominion cases are apparently examples of very serious defamation cases. The core of defamation is (1) a false statement of purported fact that (2) causes damag…

As to (3), Ken and others have also pointed out, Rudy or Sydney Powel being lawyers have a duty to know this sort of thing so there's a chance that they'll be found to have actual malice even without a finding that Rudy was knowingly lying.

Rudy also had a cybersecurity company and was named as a cybersecurity advisor. Would that help Dominion's side that this wasn't just crazy beliefs on Giuliani's part and be in favor of actual malice?

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#235

Post by xphilter »

adictator wrote: post #147
onion2k wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely, ALL of them can't be lying. Why not?

Coz there is a significant risk of penalty, of jail time. That's what a sworn affidavit is, is it not?

No there’s not. Especially if a lot of folks do it. At most, a judge gives them a stern talking to. No federal judge will order real jail time.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#236

Post by r00fus »

woofcat wrote: post #104
r00fus wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, who uses a safe deposit box these days? And what would one use it for?

Any important paperwork, or valuables you want held secure? I have some bars of precious metals, and contracts etc.

Guess I'm surprised at having a decent personal net worth but nothing irreplaceable other than personal mementos.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#237

Post by tunesmith »

legerdemain wrote: post #226
aww_dang wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps a more pertinent question comes from the perspective of realpolitik. Which is more damaging to US political institutions, having an illegitimate president or admitting that the election was stolen? I'd wager an admission of election changing fraud would make it almost impossible to recover any trust in political institutions. What would be the next steps from admitting that the election was fraudulent? Given…

The plan was enacted over the weekend... Only you never saw it. Biden, his cabinet, and tons of both Dem and Republican senators and other officials were arrested. Proof of their vast crimes was shown. They were court martialed and found guilty. However, it was decided this was too much for the American people to accept. Overturning the election and showing the crimes of these politicians could lead to Civil War. So…

Was this just creative writing or are you saying that that line of thought is out there and some nutcases actually believe it?

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#238

Post by legerdemain »

tunesmith wrote: post #237
legerdemain wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The plan was enacted over the weekend... Only you never saw it. Biden, his cabinet, and tons of both Dem and Republican senators and other officials were arrested. Proof of their vast crimes was shown. They were court martialed and found guilty. However, it was decided this was too much for the American people to accept. Overturning the election and showing the crimes of these politicians could lead to Civil War. So…

Was this just creative writing or are you saying that that line of thought is out there and some nutcases actually believe it?

I've seen it (i.e., first-hand) in private groups on Facebook.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#239

Post by tunesmith »

CydeWeys wrote: post #23
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as potentially hackable voting machines are used in elections, the anxiety about hacking will be there and will eventually be exploited by politicians. If we want to fix the issue, we really just need to move back to hand counting paper ballots.

Dominion voting machines leave an auditable paper trail and thus do support hand-counting of paper ballots, which was done as part of the recounts in disputed states. No discrepancies beyond the margin of error of hand counting were found in those recounts vs the electronically reported results. You can see how they work in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9BDiO3JGTs

Still not sufficient though, you only need to hack enough to get outside the automatic recount margin. You also need hand-recount of random samples in all elections.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#240

Post by dukeofdoom »

Rudy has a YouTube channel, you can hear him make his allegations and judge if it amounts to defamation. Most of them seem to be carefully phrased.

https://www.youtube.com/c/RudyWGiuliani/videos

Of all the claims that stuck out to me is the suitcase video, since it time corresponds with a one sided spike of votes.

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