Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani • Hacker News Board

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#101

Post by aww_dang » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 4:53 PM UTC

justinzollars wrote: post #63

I worked on campaigns for 10 years, I was an elected Hillary Rodham Clinton DNC Delegate and I witnessed real problems that should be of concern of every American. Votes should be cast in person, with identification and counted by hand. If Democracy is sacred we can wait a few days for results we can all trust. The system is clearly breaking down today where 75% of Republicans do not trust the election results and 75…

I look forward to any establishment figure working to reestablish trust in political institutions and media reportage.

Before the problem can be addressed it must be acknowledged. Unfortunately, so far I only see finger-pointing and deflection. As far as each respective side is concerned, there's no problem on their end and they have no responsibility. It is all the fault of the others. The only thing that is changing is the increasing intensity of outrage.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#102

Post by covidthrow » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

tgb wrote: post #62

corey_moncure wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a heavy Slashdot user before the takeover, and now Hacker News fills the hole in my browsing that Slashdot left. If you're like me, you'll remember the many articles about the vulnerability of Diebold voting machines. This has always been a concern, since at least the early '00s or before. I guess people have a very selective amnesia.

Modern machines differ from old ones is a very significant way: they give you a paper ballot that you - the voter - can verify before submitting.

And how many people do you think review that paper?

Probably as many as review their grocery store receipts, I'd guess. Which is to say, practically none.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#103

Post by not2b » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

adictator wrote: post #38

yesdocs wrote: post #8

I hope whatever happens with these lawsuits it chills the baseless accusations of voter fraud used to undermine voter confidence in our democracy

How would anyone know they are baseless unless a proper investigation is conducted independently? What about the thousands of sworn affidavits? Surely, ALL of them can't be lying.

Of those affidavits that were brought to court, many of them were tossed for being hearsay (someone swore that they heard someone else say that a third party did something), or called out standard vote counting practices as being suspicious, or were otherwise irrelevant. In many cases Trump's people went to court saying "We're not alleging fraud" and instead tried to get rules changed to throw out votes in blue areas. Evidence of actual fraud wasn't brought to court. Yes, there was some voter fraud; both Pennsylvania and Georgia found two voters each (yes, 2) who cast someone else's ballot (a deceased parent in some cases). But to flip an election you'd need thousands of people committing this kind of felony.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#104

Post by woofcat » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

r00fus wrote: post #97

woofcat wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Odd, I find they're the best. Hold $5k in your chequing account and _everything_ is free! Even got myself a safe deposit box. BMO has something similar but it's $6,000. The rest (last time I checked) didn't really offer something like that.

Honestly, who uses a safe deposit box these days? And what would one use it for?

Any important paperwork, or valuables you want held secure?

I have some bars of precious metals, and contracts etc.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#105

Post by rm999 » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 4:55 PM UTC

NDizzle wrote: post #72

yesdocs wrote: post #8

I hope whatever happens with these lawsuits it chills the baseless accusations of voter fraud used to undermine voter confidence in our democracy

What's your response to the activities highlighted in this 1m21s video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNM3K0cH2tc Non transparency. Bullies chasing out witnesses and poll watchers. Why?

I usually avoid commenting on political stuff, but my advice is to please find a better source for information than Scott Adams. He's a smart guy, but he is a strong proponent of "persuasion", i.e. changing people's minds is more valuable to him than presenting the facts accurately. This video is a classic example of his persuasion style, which is to make sloppy claims with flimsy evidence simply to make his opponents spend more time thinking about those claims. I know on HN we can do better than that.

In his own words: https://www.businessinsider.com/dilbert-creator-scott-adams-...

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#106

Post by mbg721 » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 4:55 PM UTC

arcticfox wrote: post #66

mbg721 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dissent is only to be tolerated when it's politically convenient. Come on, man.

What Giuliani was doing wasn't dissent, it wasn't a difference of opinion or anything remotely similar. It was straight up lying. Yes, defamation should be chilled.

Good, then prosecute him for the actual crimes he committed.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#107

Post by tartoran » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

r00fus wrote: post #84

corrys wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hand counting can be manipulated too [0], so the idea that we can just move back to it and save our democracy is not accurate (or at least not a complete solution). In other words, dishonest politicians will find ways to exploit our fears even if we use paper ballots. [0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S02613...

You linked to an abstract of the Russian vote manipulation behind a paywall. That abstract says nothing specifically about hand-count being manipulated. Hand counting remains the golden standard for voting.

All allegations against Dominion voting machines were pretty much disproved by subsequent manual vote courting. Again, the machines leave a paper trail that allows manual counting for verification. That makes simple handcounting without any assistance more prone to errors and less paper trail as well.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#108

Post by chaganated » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 4:57 PM UTC

covidthrow wrote: post #95

chaganated wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They run on MS Windows, and an assorted pile of shitware a mile deep. Bullshit passed through an HP LaserJet is still bullshit. And why on earth does a voting machine require OggVorbis? https://www.eac.gov/sites/default/files/voting_system/files/...

Possibly for accessibility features for the blind?

Braille is simpler, and does not require thousands of lines of code, which could obscure all sorts of malicious payload.

I have a bridge to sell to anyone who thinks Dominion has actually audited any of these external dependencies.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#109

Post by p49k » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 4:57 PM UTC

adictator wrote: post #38

yesdocs wrote: post #8

I hope whatever happens with these lawsuits it chills the baseless accusations of voter fraud used to undermine voter confidence in our democracy

How would anyone know they are baseless unless a proper investigation is conducted independently? What about the thousands of sworn affidavits? Surely, ALL of them can't be lying.

I’ve read some of them. No one is necessary lying, but most of the testimony is of the format “I think I saw somebody acting in a way that I felt was incompetent or malicious, even thought I was an outsider with little knowledge of the process” or “I witnessed abuse regarding over- or undercounting of votes” — claims which were later easily disproven by the hand counts.

I see no reason why all of them can’t be wrong (not necessarily intentionally lying).

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#110

Post by not2b » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 4:57 PM UTC

polishTar wrote: post #99

mbg721 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dissent is only to be tolerated when it's politically convenient. Come on, man.

Dominion will argue defamation in court which will require them to prove ALL of the following: 1) a false statement purporting to be fact; 2) communication of that statement to a third person; 3) fault amounting to at least negligence; and 4) harm caused to Dominion. If Dominion can prove those things to the satisfaction of a judge and jury, they should win. Our justice system is supposed to deter people from breakin…

And they have an extra burden: Dominion will probably be ruled to be a public figure, meaning that they will also need to prove that either Giuliani knew the statements were false or he showed "reckless disregard of the truth". But I think they should be able to do that.