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18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

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Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#391

Post by mbg721 »

umvi wrote: post #390
gruturo wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are no longer ever allowed to make personal risk management decisions. Your freedom borders with mine - you should be allowed to do EVERYTHING which doesn't affect others without their consent. Ignoring COVID-19 precautionary measures isn't one of those things, and I am happy the joy-destroying authoritarian overlords took that choice from you.

> you should be allowed to do EVERYTHING which doesn't affect others without their consent People don't exist in vacuums. Nearly every decision you make is going to affect society somehow. If you decide to eat fast food for every meal and become obese, that isn't happening in a vacuum. Sooner or later you will start putting strain on the healthcare system and if enough people do the same, the "joy-destroying overlord…

Also see Wickard v. Filburn:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#392

Post by dougmwne »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #48
dougmwne wrote: post #28

I'm interested in how vaccinating a small number of people can make a big impact on the effects of the pandemic. The risk of death and severity rapidly increases with age. We also have a good idea of the kinds of preexisting conditions put you most at risk. We have already been targeting health care professionals (increases health care capacity) and people over 65 (the majority of the at-risk population). If we are a…

We know of a half dozen human coronaviruses that stay in circulation rather than burning themselves out, so there’s reason to worry this one wouldn’t either. The exact question is probably academic, because it won’t be politically feasible to maintain social distancing when severe cases are down 100x, but we’ll definitely want to keep vaccinating.

The Dutch have started burning their bicycles in protest. That's a pretty good sign we're at the end of the public's patience for this. The deaths are terrible, but you know what killed more people over the past year? Cigarettes. And they sell those at the grocery store.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#393

Post by jmcqk6 »

jdhn wrote: post #384
woofie11 wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps not for quite a while. The vaccine grants 95% protection with those measures in place. We have no idea how effective it is without those measures. If we're all going to dance parties, the vaccine might not be adequate. I think the question is the point at which we can send kids back to schools and reopen our businesses with precautions in place -- in other words, stem the pain and bleeding. It makes sense to…

>Vaccine+masking/distancing should be enough to get rid of it. It's not clear vaccine alone will do that. The public is treating the vaccine for like the vaccine for polio, which is that once you get it, you're good. If 80%+ of Americans get the vaccine and we still have to mask and social distance, you're going to see a lot of angry people.

>If 80%+ of Americans get the vaccine and we still have to mask and social distance, you're going to see a lot of angry people.

Then people need to do better. Getting angry at reality doesn't change it. If this is how things work out, throwing a fit only makes the situation even worse.

Carl Sagan once pointed out the perils of basing a society on all this science and technology, when only a few people (relatively speaking) actually understand it. I didn't truly understand this warning until this pandemic.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#394

Post by thoughtstheseus »

stuckindider wrote: post #389
thoughtstheseus wrote: post #364

Are we prepared for a much worse pandemic? Are we building a healthy population? Vaccines are only one part of the long-term solution here.

I agree. We need to start instituting temperature checks at all businesses and mandatory mobile phone contact tracing. This would help reduce crime as well.

So you’re advocating for persistent surveillance of people? This approach doesn’t seem effective. Reducing existing underlying health conditions (obesity), improving surge capacity for hospitals, and domestic production for critical supplies all seem like better places to start.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#395

Post by [deleted] »

T-hawk wrote: post #189
eplanit wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By Springtime (in 45-60 days) we'll be at the one year mark, fatigued by masks, rules, shutdowns, and authoritarians, in general. The news will be tedious about how many are being vaccinated (it will be a lot) -- and, the weather will turn warmer. Then, many/most will say _fuck it_, I'm taking my life back. I'm visualizing that day, and will welcome it.

I said "fuck it, I'm taking my life back" months ago. And then I realized how little that is possible. How are you going to protest your way into a concert that isn't performing? How are you going to demand your way into a university that isn't teaching? How are you going to riot your way into a Disneyland that isn't running? How are you going to force your way into a sports stadium that isn't playing? How are you go…

[deleted]

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#396

Post by jariel »

xiphias2 wrote: post #363
jariel wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the need for massive, acute production capacity for a specific variation of vaccine is short-lived. What's the odds that we're going to have another pandemic in the next 10 years that has nRNA vaccine? There's no need for massive production capacity other than during a global pandemic, and you probably don't know what you need, supply chains etc. until the time of production or thereabouts. So - the money won…

The money printing that has been done because of COVID (that shows the economic damage) is many trillions of dollars, while the whole market cap of Moderna and BioNTech are in tens of billions. The amount we're spending on productionizing vaccines is nothing compared to the damage the virus creates every day. Businesses a failing every day, and when they go bankrupt they won't be able to come back.

Yes, I know, but it doesn't matter.

Spending more on vaccines now probably won't help us create more vaccines 'the next time'.

Other things, such as government support for spending more on vaccines overall - this might help.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#397

Post by AndrewBissell »

unishark wrote: post #307
AndrewBissell wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personally I hope we keep a lot of it, at least a long while more. I really hate catching flu's and colds. Are you blissfully unaware of the enormous mental health and developmental problems these measures are causing, or do you just rate those as less important than suffering an occasional mild illness while you eat DoorDash and watch Netflix?

More likely you are incorrectly supposing that when I refer to social distancing I mean lockdowns.

No, "social distancing and travel restrictions" are also quite harmful.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#398

Post by unishark »

AndrewBissell wrote: post #397
unishark wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More likely you are incorrectly supposing that when I refer to social distancing I mean lockdowns.

No, "social distancing and travel restrictions" are also quite harmful.

Don't miss the "a lot of it" part while you're at it. Because I wasn't actually thinking about fully maintaining travel restrictions either, apart from things like the better air filtering, and required masks. Though I do think they should continuing refusing people who are obviously ill. Perhaps this one will bug you nonetheless.

And before you retort again to pick at what I said and why you are justified in attacking me angrily about it, please reconsider the wonderful guideline regarding responding to the best interpretation of what someone said, rather than the easiest to attack. This is great advice I need to work on following better myself.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#399

Post by guscost »

Kim_Bruning wrote: post #373
guscost wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the reply. And er, good that you don’t actually want to go as far as killing me - there’s some wild shit out there right now. I would still be in favor of arguing about all the details over drinks, but for now I’ll just offer the roughest outline of the other perspective, which is: Refusing to accept a temporarily increased risk of disease, and instead dramatically increasing the chance that your fellow hu…

Ah, you're one of the ones who actually is rational about things. Put it this way: your liberty to spread your germs ends just where my nose begins. Else we're just permitting tyranny by another route. Currently there's a very infectious and deadly germ on the loose, so -under the above rule- everyone's freedom becomes more constrained than we'd ideally like. It's certainly evil; but it's not the human evil of fascis…

You exhale viruses. You exhale CO2. The campaign to remake society in response to these threats is, in its purest essence, a campaign to redefine the free human as a toxic animal. If successful, it will then be used to justify slavery and murder.

And to borrow a page from the global warming folks, we’re not going to wait and see whether that hunch is right, because by then it will be too late. It’s time to end this.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#400

Post by xiphias2 »

jariel wrote: post #396
xiphias2 wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The money printing that has been done because of COVID (that shows the economic damage) is many trillions of dollars, while the whole market cap of Moderna and BioNTech are in tens of billions. The amount we're spending on productionizing vaccines is nothing compared to the damage the virus creates every day. Businesses a failing every day, and when they go bankrupt they won't be able to come back.

Yes, I know, but it doesn't matter. Spending more on vaccines now probably won't help us create more vaccines 'the next time'. Other things, such as government support for spending more on vaccines overall - this might help.

I see...the RNA vaccine factory is useful though. Moderna announced already months ago that it is planning to have a flu vaccine next year. And for them changing the RNA sequence is really easy, so they can adapt their vaccine as the flu virus is mutating (just like what they are doing right now with coronavirus).
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