Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020 • Hacker News Board

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#391

Post by throw0101a » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 2:41 PM UTC

bluetomcat wrote: post #282

kybernetikos wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> strong collective identity This makes a society weaker - it's effectively a monoculture that restricts the data available to the decision makers. It also reduces a societies ability to innovate in art, culture and eventually technology and science - innovation requires the ability to take an outside view, to be self-critical, and a society that is too busy forging a 'strong collective identity' will make it harder…

The Western urge for constantly rethinking and reevaluating history and traditions, for innovations in art and science, does not lead to an inherently stable society in the long run that spans across centuries. The changes themselves introduce new kinds of problems requiring new solutions, and that affects the societal structure in unpredictable ways. Japan and South Korea are western only in a superficial sense, in…

> The Western urge for constantly rethinking and reevaluating history and traditions, for innovations in art and science, does not lead to an inherently stable society in the long run that spans across centuries.

A stable society that spans centuries can stagnate. See Imperial China and Japan before Admiral Perry showed up.

In 1600, the Chinese (and Moghul India) were probably more advanced than Europe in many respects, but there seemed to be little to no desire for further development. The telescope, which kicked off a revolution in the West, was basically ignored. When the Jesuits showed up in 1595, the China still thought that the Earth was flat:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth#Ming_Dynasty_in_Chi...

As science developed so did technology, and the European powers were able to basic steam roll over everyone else a century later.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#392

Post by akgerber » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 2:43 PM UTC

sircastor wrote: post #10

I’ll be interested to see the lifespan of EVs for “normal” people. I’ve got a 2012 Nissan LEAF we bought post-lease in 2015. I love it still, and don’t have any plans to replace it. The battery is not in great shape, but it gets me where I need to go. I am genuinely considering replacing the battery rather than buying another EV when the battery finally fails.

My parents ran their 2004 Prius until last year and it had zero mechanical problems— it was just old, and the parts that were failing and uneconomical to fix were related to interior trim degradation.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#393

Post by akgerber » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 2:43 PM UTC

nelsonmandela wrote: post #273

Man I wish they'd sell an electric car without all the cameras, tracking and self driving stuff.

You can buy a Kandi in the US today, often for under $10,000 after subsidies. https://www.kandiamerica.com/ It does have a backup camera, as basic camera modules and screens are essentially free now.

If you're in an urban area, consider an ebike for a light electric vehicle without unnecessary frills that you can store in your home.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#394

Post by selykg » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 2:45 PM UTC

csunbird wrote: post #202

jeffreygoesto wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"just old" applies to the battery technology used when they were built. Not to "a car" in general. It is totally uneconomic to scrap a car only because one part broke. I own a car from 1978 that is in very good shape (for some minimal maintenance cost, you should not just let it rot).

> It is totally uneconomic to scrap a car only because one part broke. When the battery replacement cost outvalues the cars price, it is uneconomical to repair.

Everyone is always so hung up on the value of the car when it comes to repairs.

The value of the car is only what someone would pay for it. If you're planning to keep it, then that value is only an insurance number.

A car is potentially worth a lot more if you keep it, especially if the car is low maintenance. With electric cars you trade some value up front (they are typically more expensive) to reduce the maintenance over the long term. But you will still have maintenance like replacing batteries when they go. You saved the cost of filling it up with gas and changing oil for going electric. So the smart move would be to treat your car like you're still sort of filling it with gas and changing oil and put that money towards the cost of new batteries when the time comes.

Every car has maintenance costs. With electric you just sort of push it down the road a ways when it comes to the battery.

You could get a new car... sure.. but now you have a car payment, or you may have thrown a bunch of cash at the problem. But if there's nothing wrong with your car except maintenance then put that money into the maintenance. Otherwise you're just pretending to care about the environment with your electric car that you probably tell yourself is cheaper (due to gas and oil changes) and better for the environment.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#395

Post by akgerber » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 2:46 PM UTC

theshrike79 wrote: post #111

guitarsteve wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Miami area after Hurricane Irma in 2017, we couldn’t find gas for our cars for about a week. I think the pumps for gas stations require electricity (which was also out) plus deliveries were disrupted by downed trees, traffic signal outages, etc. Just an anecdote that gasoline is not always available during crises. We did have electricity at home but neighboring buildings and neighborhoods had outages for a wee…

And even if gasoline is available, it will most likely be prioritised for logistics first. Trucks moving actual goods, buses, ambulances etc. Also: People coming in with their Ford F-one-million with an umpteen-gallon fuel capacity and hogging all the fuel.

Living in NYC after Hurricane Sandy, I spent a lot of time biking past mile+ gas lines. Gas stations ran out for a significant period of time and National Guard fuel trucks were eventually deployed, but didn't have enough for all comers.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#396

Post by throw0101a » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 2:47 PM UTC

free_rms wrote: post #360

kybernetikos wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Western urge for constantly rethinking and reevaluating history and traditions, for innovations in art and science, does not lead to an inherently stable society in the long run that spans across centuries I'm not clear what you're saying here. Are you saying that it would be a good thing if society in western countries were more like what it was 400 years ago? Enormous improvements in science, technology, cult…

China as a nation dealt with 'change' in the form of white men on awesome ships with awesome guns coming and having their way for 100 years. Going from their nadir in WWII to what they are now in 70 years seems awfully adaptable to me.

China was at the same level, or higher, in development as Europe in 1600.

By 1700, and certainly by 1800, Europe's interest in science, which then led to developments in advances in technology. This technology is what allowed the "white men on awesome ships with awesome guns" to have their way.

Perhaps if China was so top-down they could have also developed themselves more.

Toby Huff examines this disparity in his books Intellectual Curiosity and the Scientific Revolution. A Global Perspective and The Rise of Early Modern Science: Islam, China and the West. The telescope was embraced in the West, but hardly used (except with a few isolate individuals) in the other major cultures in the 1600s.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#397

Post by namelosw » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 2:49 PM UTC

godmode2019 wrote: post #81

'Global sales' I hope everyone understands in China it is very hard to get a licence plate, the government allows you to get a licence plate if you buy a heavily subsidised electric car. The aim is to stimulate demand to develop an industry. Large cities also banned motorbikes and scooters, with the same aim. This is no way market driven demand, BYD is a very interesting company to look into. It is my understanding t…

Oil dependence is only one factor of it, another factor is EV itself obviously has a bright future market, and it's a very good opportunity to take the advantage now.

It's very hard to compete with traditional car industry - the brands are very well established. However traditional brands moves rather slow on EV because all kinds of their own issues. EV is the perfect opportunity for Chinese to jump in the market and take the first mover advantage.

When there's any big change in any industry, the market would be shuffled, and there's always opportunity for China to take. It's as simple as that for the current world.

I believe the same thing could also be said on semi-conductors industry soon. There were very few attempts earlier and ended up pretty ugly, because it was just not economic feasible to compete with Intel or Qualcomm a decade ago - if it's only 60% effective with the higher cost and same price nobody would buy it. But recently Apple released M1 and make everyone in industry start to reconsider alternative architectures - which may eventually led China to be an important player in the next decade.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#398

Post by bproven » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 2:54 PM UTC

missedthecue wrote: post #110

theshrike79 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is a country lead by engineers with unlimited power to do whatever they want. If they want all cars to be electric, that will happen. If they want a 5 million person city just there because it's logistically advantageous, then that will happen. The good thing is that they can make decisions like this. The bad thing is that they can make decisions like this.

Autocracies seem to be the most efficient form of governance. It's a shame that this also means that they can do evil things very efficiently, given no one can stop them.

dictatorships are the best - as long as your dictator is benevolent...

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#399

Post by wil421 » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 2:56 PM UTC

yarcob wrote: post #378

nickik wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to use the sell driving but not not want the passive safety features that come with that seems kind of insane.

I'm not convinced Tesla's passive safety features are better than those of other companies. Given the track record of Teslas crashing into stationary obstacles, I'm not sure if they even use cameras for emergency breaking, or if it's just the radar based stuff every other car maker uses as well.

My Grand Cherokee has a radar unit that states the same warning about stationary objects. It appears the part is from Bosch and fit for Grand Cherokees and Durangos.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#400

Post by Dumblydorr » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 2:59 PM UTC

angmarsbane wrote: post #17

One thing I keep getting tripped up on with EV cars is the usability during an emergency. I grew up in SoCal when there were rolling black-outs. Just this week, a windstorm took out my parent’s power for 3 days. I don’t view electricity to be as reliable as gas. What fact am I missing that can change my view on this?

Just wait a few more years, gas stations will start being phased out, rooftop solar will be even cheaper, and the economical side of your worry will be eviscerated. The learning curve solar and batteries are on means their relentless March of improvement will render gas scarce and expensive by comparison. Gas will still play a role for older cars and antiques, but it'll be harder and harder to find over time.