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Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

theguardian.com

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Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#221

Post by adrianN »

Ma8ee wrote: post #214
adrianN wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My two person household uses maybe two kWh per day.

I find that very unlikely if you have any appliances at all. Multiple it by ten and I might start to believe you. For reference, right now we, granted in a four person household and electric heating in the coldest winter month, are using around 100 kWh per day. Even when the house is unoccupied in the summer the consumption is around 3.5 kWh per day. That is probably mostly just a fridge and two freezers.

From May 2019 to January 2020 we used 706kWh. I have a fridge but no other appliances that constantly draw power. I don't heat electrically, but I cook using electricity. I run the washing machine about once a week or so and hang-dry the clothes.

I guess I've used a bit more electricity during the last year because I worked from home more, but I doubt it's a factor 10. 100kWh per day would cost more than I pay for rent...

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#222

Post by dirkf »

Ma8ee wrote: post #214
adrianN wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My two person household uses maybe two kWh per day.

I find that very unlikely if you have any appliances at all. Multiple it by ten and I might start to believe you. For reference, right now we, granted in a four person household and electric heating in the coldest winter month, are using around 100 kWh per day. Even when the house is unoccupied in the summer the consumption is around 3.5 kWh per day. That is probably mostly just a fridge and two freezers.

With a household of 4 and doing everything electrical (cooking, heating, hot water but no electric car) we use on average about 9-10 kWh per day. A bit more in the winter, a bit less in summer. This is a well-insulated, relatively recent house in western Europe. 100kWh seems excessive to me.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#223

Post by tomp »

m463 wrote: post #201
missedthecue wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Autocracies seem to be the most efficient form of governance. It's a shame that this also means that they can do evil things very efficiently, given no one can stop them.

> Autocracies seem to be the most efficient form of governance. I've wondered about this. Is there a way that democracy could compete, possibly by reflecting "the will of the people" quickly and accurately? Or would that always fundamentally be a popularity contest? Or will democracy require something akin to "martial law" to quickly decide and act on urgent matters?

> Or will democracy require something akin to "martial law" to quickly decide and act on urgent matters?

After the pandemic hit the West - Europe started locking down mid-March, Trump banned EU flights on 12th - Germany (a democracy of 80 million people) passed a financial aid package on 23rd of March; US (a democracy of 300 million people) followed on the 25th.

So it's quite clear that democracies can react quickly, provided there's broad consensus of what the problem is and how to solve it; of course, things slow down when there's no consensus and conflicting views, but arguably that's a feature, not a bug.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#224

Post by Theodores »

godmode2019 wrote: post #81

'Global sales' I hope everyone understands in China it is very hard to get a licence plate, the government allows you to get a licence plate if you buy a heavily subsidised electric car. The aim is to stimulate demand to develop an industry. Large cities also banned motorbikes and scooters, with the same aim. This is no way market driven demand, BYD is a very interesting company to look into. It is my understanding t…

There is a five year plan in China to basically take over the entire global automotive sector by making electric cars. They are not interested in completing with ICE cars by selling cheap ICE cars, it is all about upping the game to a better product that is BEV.

Europe had better watch out.

The US can defend their market with tariffs so everyone there drives a truck. But the longer they do that then the more out of touch they will become. It is going to be fun to see how this works out.

Tesla make great products but they are not a great market fit for Europe. There's so much scope for innovation but even now the Europe BEV efforts are ICE cars with the engine swapped out, therefore not cool.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#225

Post by fogihujy »

speedgoose wrote: post #69
angmarsbane wrote: post #17

One thing I keep getting tripped up on with EV cars is the usability during an emergency. I grew up in SoCal when there were rolling black-outs. Just this week, a windstorm took out my parent’s power for 3 days. I don’t view electricity to be as reliable as gas. What fact am I missing that can change my view on this?

That's a very local problem that SoCal needs to work on. I can't remember having a blackout ever in my life, I live in Europe. Just keep your car charged between 50% and 80% when you are at home and it should be enough to reach the hospital or a safe place during a blackout.

Besides, if the power outage brings society into such a disarray that you can't just call an ambulance if something happened, then there is a high likeliood that having a petrol-powered car wouldn't be much better than an electric one anyway.

Europe is a big place, though. There's a lot of people living in the countryside and with much less reliable utilities compared to urban areas. Power outages do occur here too and they're even frequent in some areas. :)

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#226

Post by Xylakant »

Ma8ee wrote: post #199
Xylakant wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla’s sales in Germany are up ~20%, but on a very low level. Their total market share is now 0.5 percent. It’a definitely encouraging to see growth here, but there’s still a long way to go. It’s also important to keep in mind that the numbers for electric vehicles often include plug-in hybrids. They’re a neat idea in theory, but in practice, they often serve as a hybrid car and never get plugged in. The gains from…

Is like to have a source for the statement that plug in hybrid never gets plugged in. Everyone I know who has one charges it over night and only runs it on petroleum occasionally.

All the neighbours here on the compound bought it for subsidies only - there's no charging option in the parking garage.

Edit: Adding some numbers from https://www.zeit.de/mobilitaet/2020-09/plug-in-hybrid-studie... (sorry, german)

43% of the private owners use the charging option, 18% of the company owned cars. However, due to tax incentives, 63% of all cars registered per year are company owned cars.

The incentives are that you get a substantial tax break if you register a plug-in (or electric) car - leading to the odd result that 40% of all Porsche Panameras registered are plug-in hybrid cars.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#227

Post by Faaak »

limaoscarjuliet wrote: post #183

The next step is to work on cleaner electricity. While most EU got the message long time ago, eastern bloc countries are much behind. Currently in Poland it is better for the environment to drive a diesel VW Golf than Tesla, as the electricity is produced from brown coal.

That's not true. Even with coal, the end-to-end emissions are better with electric cars.

Proof: Poland is 800gCO₂/kWh [1]. With an average electric car (i.e. my hyundai ioniq), you average 11kWh/100km, or .11kWh/km. Taking emissions into account, that gives us 88gCO₂/km.

A VW golf is 120gCO₂/km [2]

[1]: https://www.electricitymap.org/map [2]: https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/cars/Car-CO2-and-fuel-economy-mp...

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#228

Post by eecc »

missedthecue wrote: post #110
theshrike79 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is a country lead by engineers with unlimited power to do whatever they want. If they want all cars to be electric, that will happen. If they want a 5 million person city just there because it's logistically advantageous, then that will happen. The good thing is that they can make decisions like this. The bad thing is that they can make decisions like this.

Autocracies seem to be the most efficient form of governance. It's a shame that this also means that they can do evil things very efficiently, given no one can stop them.

Well no, because an autocracy can just decide to go full in with the most outrageously stupid ideas and no one can stop it from happening. Just look at the great famines in USSR, China and North Korea. Or the fuckups with nuclear reactor designs and operations in the USSR.

Now mind you, autocracy doesn’t necessarily mean despotic dictatorship. Self serving unbounded capitalism can be one as well.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#229

Post by eecc »

rakoo wrote: post #209
kstenerud wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Autocracies are only short-term efficient. Once their initial aims are met, they become terribly inefficient, then corruption sets in, and then they must be forcibly removed. It's good for other nations who can benefit from their trailblazing, but bad for the nation itself because they're basically fucked in the future when the bill comes due. Centralization is long-term the worst kind of governance, inevitably becom…

Call me cynical but climate change, the biggest threat to mankind right is right in front of us. We will also face the biggest threat to what made our civilization and our democracy possible, which is cheap quasi-unlimited access to energy (petrol in our case). Combine both and I don't see democracies as being able to efficiently navigate us out of this combined nightmare to come. As you said, autocracies are efficie…

Not necessarily. Autocracies don’t self-correct when it’s needed: dissent is not tolerated and dissenters are automatically out-group and dealt with accordingly.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#230

Post by sharpneli »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #153
angmarsbane wrote: post #17

One thing I keep getting tripped up on with EV cars is the usability during an emergency. I grew up in SoCal when there were rolling black-outs. Just this week, a windstorm took out my parent’s power for 3 days. I don’t view electricity to be as reliable as gas. What fact am I missing that can change my view on this?

How much is that irrational fear worth to you? In the end that's the question that needs answering. Very soon, you'll be paying extra to buy a petrol vehicle. And that's before you drive it anywhere and get to deal with taxes, fuel cost, and maintenance cost as well. In any case, a typical EV would have about 50KWH of battery; more than enough to power a house for a while. The more EVs there are, the more stored KWH…

Amusingly enough there will be oversized EV SUV's. Up to ridiculous ones like the upcoming Hummer EV, yes you read that right. A Hummer. As EV.

It has 200kWh battery so that should give even more juice to power a house.

I wouldn't be surprised if some would buy ridiculously oversized EVs just to alleviate that fear.

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