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Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

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Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#371

Post by blueblisters »

perryizgr8 wrote: post #263
blueblisters wrote: post #234

I think Tesla has a distinct advantage over Waymo because of their ability to control the entire vehicle stack from low-level ECUs to the batteries, motors and high-level autonomous stack. Waymo has to partner with automobile OEMs who are still figuring out how to build electric vehicles, and build them in a way that can integrate with Waymo's technology.

I don't think there is any reason for Waymo not to pair up their system with a regular petrol car. Electric vehicle capability is orthogonal to self driving.

Depends, if they are planning to run a taxi fleet or restrict themselves to new personal vehicles, integration and operational costs for ICE vehicles is likely going to be higher than EVs in a couple of years. There is little common between the vehicle dynamics and control for ICE and Electric vehicles, and it might be more practical to focus on one platform.

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#372

Post by xedeon »

sidibe wrote: post #364
xedeon wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really. Waymo has this in 2012? https://youtu.be/YJxnVRAX2UA?t=4 Do you have an article/video you can share by any chance? I've been following Google's self driving efforts for years and must've missed that.

If we're cherry-picking examples this comparison of 2009 Waymo vs 2020 FSD Beta is pretty funny https://twitter.com/Tweetermeyer/status/1324122869702389761

Those are not even remotely the same... That Waymo video has been pre-mapped. To infer that Waymo in 2012-2009 can go from point A to B anywhere in the U.S. like FSD Beta is patently false.

Ever wonder why Waymo only have their fleet in a geofenced area of AZ?

https://www.reddit.com/r/waymo/comments/c24bcu/i_got_finally...

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#373

Post by nrjames »

na85 wrote: post #340
meekrohprocess wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have one question for Tesla customers who trust the company to deliver full FSD. How do you reconcile that belief with the fact that Tesla's embedded developers did not understand the extremely simple concept of write endurance? The NHTSA opened an investigation into premature HUD failures because they prevented the backup cameras from working. But the fact of the matter is, the company used a small partition of in…

>You're also entrusting my life, and those of my family, to them. But we'll gloss over that, because it's expensive not to. This is my biggest concern. I'm going to get killed by some jackass' tesla while he's texting, because Elon Musk is a megalomaniac.

There are loads of people texting and driving who aren’t in a Tesla. I worry much more about them.

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#374

Post by mxschumacher »

TheDong wrote: post #161
mxschumacher wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, making autonomous driving work in central Delhi or Agadir will be much different from a US highway. Maybe it's too cyberpunk, but I can already see the headline of road pirates capturing autonomous cars and taking them apart for spares. Those sensors, the GPU and computing units are quite valuable.

Your impression of Delhi and Agadir doesn't seem right to me. By the numbers, Delhi has the highest crime-rate in india, but it has a 5 times lower rate of crime than San Francisco does. And also, self-driving cars will all have enough cameras and be constantly connected to a server that theft will be far less likely for them than regular cars... and regular calls already seem to get by just fine without people strip…

I meant the kind of traffic they have, I've driven there, it's unique!

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#375

Post by 3pt14159 »

sorenjan wrote: post #182
ra7 wrote: post #26

I think the FSD beta rollout is completely irresponsible from Tesla. Rolling out a clearly half-baked safety critical technology to its customers (yes, I know it's only a few beta testers) who are untrained is nothing but a tactic to generate hype and get more customers to buy that $10k FSD package. This is on top of Tesla being the least transparent company out there in reporting safety data or their testing methodo…

I don't understand why it's legal. How can it be allowed to send out uncertified software to cars on public roads? Aren't there safety standards that need to be met? I thought that safety critical products where better regulated than this.

Welcome to being me three or four years ago. I've literally met with MPs and ministers trying to get regulations and other things. They're coming. But they don't happen without civic engagement. Write to your elected representative and call for legislation. It works. It takes time, but it works.

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#376

Post by 3pt14159 »

What I think most people miss with FSD is that it's going to have a higher crash rate than average while the kinks are still being ironed out. That is ok because we're seeking to reduce the crash rate overall as fast as possible. I've been in many, many accidents in my life. Usually as the person not at fault or in the passenger seat or on the bicycle. I love the idea of self-driving cars. They will save many lives.

The critical part to get right, however, is to test FSD on people that are more prone to get in car accidents in the first place. The elderly, recovering alcoholics, etc. That way we have the best of both worlds. Real world data to improve algorithms on, but also not raising the overall crash rate.

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#377

Post by dtech »

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #241
gkoberger wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm I don't want to defend Tesla, but I do want to push back on this a bit! Facebook made "move fast and break things" famous, which was Zuckerberg's way of presenting a tradeoff. Everyone company says they want to move fast, but Zuckerberg made it clear that the company should care more about velocity than stability. I don't believe that's Tesla's attitude. Rather, I think their attitude is more "move fast and ignor…

Regulations are all we have to keep things from breaking...ignoring them about something like a self driving car should be a criminal offense.

The other side of the coin as that they hobble 5-20 years behind tech possibilities. If you want to push boundaries, you sometimes have little choice.

Self-driving cars in the next 10 years have been a serious possibility for the last decade or so, yet governments and insurers don't have a policy ready and won't until a couple of years after the first self-driving cars are available.

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#378

Post by chopin »

darawk wrote: post #352
mxschumacher wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's interesting how optimistic long term visions conflict - if you really think autonomous cabs will become widespread then by implication you are also saying that car sales will be drastically lower. Tough to be serious betting on both. The math of "you'll pay more for the car but the car will go out and make money for you as a robotic Uber" sounds like a pyramid scheme to me; if too many people do it, it can no lo…

Not if you keep the tech. to yourself. Which is why you would do a robotic taxi. You avoid giving out the technology, and so you can charge a premium for your taxi service, while still undercutting traditional taxis.

But price and convenience need to cross some thresholds before I abandon my car.

I think this is a difficult problem as you have surge demand at least for commuting. So we can't get around with 1/10th of cars which are driving all day.

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#379

Post by fuj »

kerng wrote: post #233

So much hate towards Tesla here. I'm more neutral - dont have a strong opinion on this. But from Google's messaging it seems that the Waymo CEO is maybe a bit defensive (scared?). Tesla has probably the long term better strategy which leads to more accurate up to date data to constantly improve their system. Tesla's crowdsourcing strategy might be the winning horse in this race.

Saying that waymo's CEO is scared is definitely not being neutral

Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”

#380

Post by mrtksn »

xedeon wrote: post #369
mrtksn wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's captured by the defences I listed above. You say that this is an autopilot, you make them purchase self driving capability package, you say that the car comes with all the hardware necessary for self driving, you fans post videos online about cars driving themselves and in the small print you say that it's not autopilot but Autopilot and the drivers must pay attention all the time and you put very weak sa…

That's such a hard reach and a bunch of word mincing. To this day in 2021, many people still don't wear seat belts. Even though that's a solved problem. Some people will do stupid things. It's human nature.

Sure but car makers don't imply or give impression that you don't need seatbelts thanks to the collusion detection system or the airbags. They don't sell seatbelt-free system that only in the small print says that the seatbelt must be worn all the times except for off-road driving.
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