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18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

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Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#131

Post by meddlepal »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #123
eplanit wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By Springtime (in 45-60 days) we'll be at the one year mark, fatigued by masks, rules, shutdowns, and authoritarians, in general. The news will be tedious about how many are being vaccinated (it will be a lot) -- and, the weather will turn warmer. Then, many/most will say _fuck it_, I'm taking my life back. I'm visualizing that day, and will welcome it.

I'm visualizing that day, and will welcome it Are you into apocalypses? There's the British quick-spreading strain, and there are the Brazilian and South African variants that the vaccine does not offer good protection against. I predict that COVID will be like Picardy Fever, not like the Spanish Flu - there will be outbreaks every few years here and there.

The apocalypse scenario is unlikely with the population having some resistance to the virus after vaccination even if new variants possibly render the vaccine less effective. We obviously do not have enough data yet to understand the vaccine's efficacy against these new strains but a lot of scientists are saying it will be "good enough" while we work on vaccines to handle the variants.

If this thing can basically be treated no differently than the common cold once vaccinated by most people and in the outliers something a little worse there will be no popular support to continue draconian lock down measures.

The goal is to stop the bleeding. The patient is on the floor right now and haemorrhaging liters blood. We want to stabilize the patient and let them get on with their life as quickly as possible. We cannot let perfect be the enemy of "Good Enough" here.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#132

Post by ahelwer »

jariel wrote: post #46

Here is a interactive chart showing various nations [1] Israel will be #1 by far. They have apparently paid $65/dose or something like that, far ahead of what others have paid, moreover, the dealing looks a little problematic. Obviously, it's worth far, far more than $65 a person, but it may not make too much sense to get into a vicious bidding war as it's unlikely to increase the rate of production and the surpluses…

Misleading to say Israel is in the lead when the stats don't count the 4.5 million Palestinians living under their control, none of whom are being vaccinated.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#133

Post by AndrewBissell »

guscost wrote: post #113
metamet wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That you don't want them to get it and die, like my grandma did? I'm not quite sure how you can convince someone to get a vaccine if they don't trust the science on it.

I’m not sure how much of it is fear of the MRNA vaccine itself, and how much is an objection to the creepy fascist context. Probably a lot of both, and maybe yes a bit too much of the former. But in any case their reply is, “We would rather take the risk.” If they get sick and die like your grandma (condolences), they will have done so at least partially by choice, a choice which they have damn well earned by their m…

> I’m not sure how much of it is fear of the MRNA vaccine itself, and how much is an objection to the creepy fascist context. Probably a lot of both, and maybe yes a bit too much of the former.

I don't think the two concerns are all that neatly separable. I find it impossible not to notice the relentless campaign to put forth _vaccinating everyone with an experimental jab_ as the only legitimate escape from indefinite lockdowns and distancing. Evidence piles up in favor of easy & cheap measures like vitamin D supplementation or ivermectin treatment having the potential to significantly reduce the threat of Covid and it just gets drowned out by media noise.

I view mRNA vaccines in much the same way as nuclear power: they could be an important technology to address our problems, if we could trust our institutions to adequately guard against their potentially enormous hazards or misuse. But we can't. And while I haven't decided yet whether I'm going to get the vaccine, one thing that will make me much more likely to fall into the "refuse" camp is if they decide to impose some kind of restrictions on basic freedoms and make travel or attending concerts contingent on getting a vaccine.

Even with all these concerns, if I was in my 90s, I think I would still find the danger from Covid so severe as to tilt the risk/reward balance in favor of getting the shot. But I don't find your relatives' approach absurd by any stretch.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#134

Post by tzs »

randmeerkat wrote: post #4
umvi wrote: post #3

At what number can we stop wearing masks, stop social distancing, start dining in, etc.? That's the number I care about. Because until somebody influential picks that number, we'll just keep masking and social distancing until the end of time.

According to this yahoo article about 65 - 70% of the population needs to be vaccinated until we can get back to normal. That said there still may be mutations or other complicating factors that could throw a wrench in things. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/around-65-75-of-the-populatio...

Do those kind of calculations assume that the people who are vaccinated are spread fairly uniformly throughout the population, or do they take into account that people who will not take the vaccine will have a tendency to clump so that we are likely to have some cities or counties with high vaccination rates and other cities or counties with low vaccination rates?

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#135

Post by [deleted] »

rmk wrote: post #129
AndrewBissell wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inflicting on all children the certain damage of social isolation, screen learning, and further economic precarity, to avoid theoretical and undemonstrated long-term effects (of a perhaps serious but not crippling nature) to a small percentage of them, does not strike me as societal wisdom in any way. Also, do you know what else has unknown long-term effects in children?

I'm not arguing that children should be kept out of in-person school. In fact, I'm against it, and was against it even when the pandemic was raging last year. I agree with you that children have been silent victims of schoolteachers' refusal to do in-person school. I do, however, strongly support reasonable precautions including masking and physical distancing, which can be achieved with children (not very young chil…

[deleted]

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#136

Post by guscost »

metamet wrote: post #130
guscost wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure how much of it is fear of the MRNA vaccine itself, and how much is an objection to the creepy fascist context. Probably a lot of both, and maybe yes a bit too much of the former. But in any case their reply is, “We would rather take the risk.” If they get sick and die like your grandma (condolences), they will have done so at least partially by choice, a choice which they have damn well earned by their m…

You could encourage them to keep in mind that by refusing to get vaccinated, they're likely going to be living the rest of their life under threat of contracting COVID. It seems that those who are vaccinated can still spread it, and I don't believe we're going to be in a place where COVID is eliminated altogether anytime soon. There will continue to be outbreaks, and it's possible that those who are vaccinated will p…

> You could encourage them to keep in mind that by refusing to get vaccinated, they're likely going to be living the rest of their life under threat of contracting COVID.

I think you might be blind to how a person who values freedom more than safety, and who sees more danger to free civilization than to public health in this affair, would receive this threat. It would be an utterly awful thing to say.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#137

Post by Izkata »

supertrope wrote: post #108
Izkata wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Two weeks to slow the spread" while we build up hospital capacity has turned into nearly a year of not bothering with extra capacity. It doesn't surprise me people are fed up.

It takes years to train a nurse and a decade to train a physician. An indication of max capacity is when hospitals halt elective procedures. There are currently 130K people laid out in hospitals. We have mercifully just trended down from a third peak. Would you rather we get Italy's fate of mass casualty stage rationing?

Here in Chicago we built [0] and staffed [1] extra capacity, and then got rid of it a short time later when it went almost completely unused [2]. Despite early claims they could, they did not bring it back for the second wave this past fall [3].

There was no reason for us to stay as locked down as we have been.

[0] https://news.wttw.com/2020/03/30/mccormick-place-be-transfor...

[1] https://abc7chicago.com/doctors-and-nurses-coronavirus-pande...

[2] https://news.wttw.com/2020/05/01/field-hospital-mccormick-pl...

[3] https://chicago.suntimes.com/2020/11/13/21562828/mccormick-p...

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#138

Post by berryjerry »

metamet wrote: post #125
randmeerkat wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sorry your grandma died.

Thank you. My grandma tested positive on a Monday around a month ago and went into hospice the following Thursday night, when her oxygen dropped. She passed away the following Saturday morning. My girlfriend's grandma also passed from COVID a few weeks ago. When it rains it pours, eh? The whole thing is just horrible to deal with. Not having a chance to say goodbye or go through the grieving process together. It's ju…

That number does seem like a lot but in the same time period several million people died from other causes. Death is quite natural.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#139

Post by [deleted] »

umvi wrote: post #3

At what number can we stop wearing masks, stop social distancing, start dining in, etc.? That's the number I care about. Because until somebody influential picks that number, we'll just keep masking and social distancing until the end of time.

[deleted]

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#140

Post by Teknoman117 »

metamet wrote: post #125
randmeerkat wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sorry your grandma died.

Thank you. My grandma tested positive on a Monday around a month ago and went into hospice the following Thursday night, when her oxygen dropped. She passed away the following Saturday morning. My girlfriend's grandma also passed from COVID a few weeks ago. When it rains it pours, eh? The whole thing is just horrible to deal with. Not having a chance to say goodbye or go through the grieving process together. It's ju…

Same here. My grandfather died early in the pandemic (May). He tested positive for a period of three weeks and then tested negative a few times. He started feeling better and we were hopeful, but the damage was too great and his heart failed a few weeks later.

I really just can't put my feelings into words.

He was in a physical rehab facility after surgery. When the pandemic hit, visitation was forbidden. Turns out most of the staff were scared and basically abandoned the patients. The specific facility specialized in elderly patients who had severe mobility issues.

He told us on the phone once at the beginning that he was scared because all he heard at night were people screaming for help as they stopped being able breathe as COVID was destroying their lungs. He figured it wasn't long before he caught it. However, no one would sign off on discharging him, and by the time we got the bare minimum to care for him at home and the legal crap sorted out, he caught it.

He lived practically opposite the country to me (I'm in LA, he was in Boston), so I didn't see him very often. He also wasn't the kindest person to me growing up, so I didn't really talk to him all that often either.

With that, it just doesn't feel real that he's gone. There was no funeral, no memorial service, as everything is tabled until after the pandemic. I don't think it'll really set in until I visit my grandmother and he's not there.

And you see the assholes who want to say taking precautions should be a personal choice or are an invasion of their personal freedoms. I wish every single one of them could experience the fear my grandfather did. Stuck in a bed, unable to walk, waiting for a plague to take them as their fellow patients succumb one by one. It's just disgusting.

My grandmother, wearing a full hazmat suit with an oxygen tank, was able to be there with him when he passed.

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