Live data from Hacker News

How Homogeneous Is Japan?

noahpinion.substack.com

201–210 of 232 posts

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m telling you that black people in America have a culture that is descended from a lot of sources, and you cannot just simplify it as Anglo-Saxon, again because such a wide swath comes from the African diaspora that ignoring that means ignoring its most noticeable aspects. Gospel, jazz, blues, and rap are not descended from any Anglo-Saxon musical tradition, nor are our dances, or many of our foods. American cultur…

> I’m telling you that black people in America have a culture that is descended from a lot of sources, and you cannot just simplify it as Anglo-Saxon, again because such a wide swath comes from the African diaspora that ignoring that means ignoring its most noticeable aspects. Gospel, jazz, blues, and rap are not descended from any Anglo-Saxon musical tradition, nor are our dances, or many of our foods. I looked up t…

I detest this attempt to deny historical people of their creative capacity. You are acting as if the cultures of modern times are simple antecedents of cultures from the fall of the Roman Empire.

To back up your claim of jazz being "European", please source a European that composed with blues scale, jazz chords, and swing before African Americans.

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#202

"To some on the Right, Japan is a paradise of racial purity..." Is it now considered a de facto truth that people identifying as "Right" are racists? If not, why bring up the Right in this sentence? When I was growing up, Right overlapped with Conservative, but racists were a discrete group of people. If Right now means racist, what is the label for someone with the political attributes of Right, but who is not racis…

> Is it now considered a de facto truth that people identifying as "Right" are racists? Racial/ethnic/national/cultural (including religious) chauvinism has been an attribute of Conservatism/Right politics forever (also, class chauvinism, though over time that's become less pronounced, or at least less overt, faster than the others, probably because it's one of the things you can't really get away with out loud in sy…

It has also been an attribute of “left” politics since forever, by which I mean that one one might call “left” an “right” both had some very noticeable politicians that championed it.

But it is always effective sport to compare the moderate, reasonable parts of one's own “camp” with the fundamentalists and extremists of the other.

It's really quite simple: you see, masculinists are reasonable people who wish to simply discuss some of the hardships males face, but feminists are all gender Nazis that are utterly unreasonable, for look at these examples I drummed up! just so vice versā, of course.

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Right now means racist, what is the label for someone with the political attributes of Right, but who is not racist? There isn't one. Many liberals consider conservative beliefs to be inherently racist. Opposition to the ACA, for example, was decried as "racist": https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterubel/2013/11/21/is-opposit... . A lot of this worldview isn't unwarranted. Conservative opposition to the federal gov…

Oh, come on. The Democratic left also opposes the ACA. I'm sure somebody on Twitter or in The American Prospect managed to write the sentence implying that opposition to the ACA is somehow "racist", but nobody actually believes this, the same way nobody actually believes a lot of crazy things right-wingers have claimed. There has to be room for people to say stupid stuff without the constant risk that the entire deba…

I can't count then number of articles I've read since January 6 characterizing conservatism generally as basically racism.

Which is fine. Progressives are hurtling toward an Ibram Kendi definition of "racism" and under that definition, pretty much all of conservatism is "racist" in the sense that it's not anti-racist. You're probably not going to correct the structural economic differences between Black and white people without some sort of big-government intervention, large-scale redistribution, etc. (The Black-white income gap has not changed in decades, while e.g. Latino incomes have converged to white incomes within a few generations.) You can redefine pretty much every conservative policy a racist in that framing: gun rights--Black people disproportionately suffer from gun violence, etc. Kendi specifically uses the capital gains preference as an example of a "racist" policy. And based on his axioms, he's not wrong. As I've said before, while I don't share Kendi's premises, I don't really disagree with his reasoning within the framework he's constructed.

Now, I think only a minority of rank-and-file Democrats actually view "racism" that expansively. But (1) these people are disproportionately represented in policy-making circles, media, and academia; and (2) Democrats have no institutional reason to push back on that since they control the media and academia.

So I expect these definitions to continue to gain purchase. When Don Lemon called all Trump voters racists, at least Chris Cuomo pushed back: https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1349672644455575554?s.... I don't think that will be the case in 10 years. I'll be pleasantly surprised if it is.

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#204
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The refusal to gather statistics on ethno-racial diversity is unusual" Not gathering racial statistics is the norm in continental Europe. It's mostly Anglo-Saxon people (us, uk) and their love for the idea of "race" that is the exception.

"Not gathering racial statistics is the norm in continental Europe. It's mostly Anglo-Saxon people (us, uk) and their love for the idea of "race" that is the exception." In the UK, statistics are collected on the ethnic origin of people in order to provide insights into important issues. For example, the COVID-19 pandemic has revealed that deaths from COVID-19 are higher among black and South Asian groups. Without th…

But is it more meaningful than many other variable that one might collect statistics of?

What stands out for me in particular is that there is often talk in academic achievement and income level as a function of race, but it turns out that the far less discussed variable of the time of the year one was born in, is a bigger indicator than race.

It feels as though it be a self-fulfilling prophecy to me. They think race is so important that the moment they find anything that correlates as a function of it, they chant it, whereas race is often not even the actual proximate cause, but something else that correlates with it such as, for instance, urban residence, and no such chants are made when even higher correlations are found with other variables they don't seem to care as much about.

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't call the distinct African-American culture "Anglo-Saxon". It is instead rooted in the historical experience that black people have had. The black identity was already formed during the slavery period and incorporates elements of African, European, and Native American culture. Similarly, just because people speak English does not make their culture "Anglo-Saxon". There are many different cultural practices…

> I wouldn't call the distinct African-American culture "Anglo-Saxon". It is instead rooted in the historical experience that black people have had. It is rooted in their experience living in an Anglo-Saxon milieu . At the end, they speak English, practice Anglo-Saxon religions, practice Anglo-Saxon traditions, eat Anglo-Saxon food, have Anglo-Saxon sensibilities on gender relationships, social hierarchies, criminal…

> At the end, they speak English, practice Anglo-Saxon religions, practice Anglo-Saxon traditions, eat Anglo-Saxon food, have Anglo-Saxon sensibilities on gender relationships, social hierarchies, criminal justice, parent–child relationships, personal privacy, nudity, and all the other quintessential Anglo-Saxon sensibilities and cultural norms that make it unique in the world.

Hard disagree. African-Americans speak a very distinct English language, and while they follow "Anglo-Saxon" religion, many still retain roots to African elements in their rites (ever been to a black funeral in some parts of the South?). Their cultural food is also heavily distinct, although it is partly influenced by Anglo-Saxon food. They don't have the same sensibilities as Anglo-Saxons because of their culture, but more because of religion, just like many Southerners. "Anglo-Saxon sensibilities and cultural norms on.... " is also something that's very distinct across the US and the world - there's a lot of difficulty in breaking down the barriers of race and sexual orientation in the US, while all other Anglo-Saxon countries broke them down way back. Latin countries such as France or Spain have broken down many strict rules many years ago, while they still continue in most of Latin America.

Honestly you sound like someone who has had very little interaction with the African American community, while doing a lot of grandstanding for them from your plantation home. There are just so many things you'll find different right in upon interaction. As a simple question, why are African American names so unique and not Anglo-Saxon names or African names?

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#206

"To some on the Right, Japan is a paradise of racial purity..." Is it now considered a de facto truth that people identifying as "Right" are racists? If not, why bring up the Right in this sentence? When I was growing up, Right overlapped with Conservative, but racists were a discrete group of people. If Right now means racist, what is the label for someone with the political attributes of Right, but who is not racis…

Former prime minister Abe Shinzo is famous right-wing politician but interestingly, he introduced limited term immigrants(?) program in weird way due to shortage of lower salary worker.

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s another large Muslim minority group called the Hui, who aren’t included in the Xinjiang camps and are generally treated well by most accounts I’ve seen.

The Hui also got caught up in the "war on terror" (read: anti-Muslim policies) that supposedly only targeted Uighur separatists. Example from Chinese state media: https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1092308.shtml Now, arguably the anti-halal policies were about trying to ban misleading advertising, because it's a bit silly to claim halal status on everything. Malaysia is another country that also has a bit of problem…

The Hui are definitely suffering, in the public mind, from conceptual association with the Uyghurs. As long as the Uyghurs claim to represent "Islam", it's somewhat unavoidable for the Hui to be dragged down with them.

Nevertheless, it is quite plainly the case that oppression of the Uyghurs targets them for being culturally distinct (and, to a certain extent, seditious), not for being Muslims. It baffles me that Western media are so monomaniacally focused on criticizing this in terms of "oppressing people because of their religion" when (1) that is obviously not what's going on, and (2) "oppressing people because of their race", which is going on, is at least as bad in the eyes of Western media consumers as "oppressing people because of their religion" is.

Every time this happens, it signals as loudly as possible that the reporter has absolutely no clue what they're purporting to talk about. And it is fascinating that it seems to be so important to so many of them to talk about it anyway.

> But then, China has an awful lot of other misleading advertising and false claims (in particular around TCM and efficacy of folk remedies) that the government ignores or promotes. Why only target halal?

Well, from the article:

>> The Ningxia government has taken measures against the pan-halal tendency and Islamic thought influenced by theologies common in Arab nations, which is referred to as Arabization.

>> The Ningxia Ethnic Affairs Commission vowed in May 2017 to properly handle the pan-halal and Arabization tendencies, promoting socialist core values and placing national flags at religious sites, read a statement on the website of the Ningxia government.

I feel pretty sure that what they really care about is the Arabization. The two aren't totally unrelated; a marketplace that bifurcates everything into "halal haircuts" and "haram haircuts", "halal art lessons" and "haram art lessons" is providing space for (or, depending on your point of view, expressing) the idea that what's most important is to be a Muslim first and Chinese second.

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#208
post #56
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The use of "race" for ethnicity is indeed a uniquely American thing; most of the countries I've mentioned use "ethnicity" or "nationality".

It's even weirder: in the US, ethnicity is a separate official category from race that has two buckets: either "hispanic or latino" or "not hispanic or latino". Which... what?

US got its initial Latino population from conquering bits of Mexico; and while in the US Latinos were a separate ethnic group from Anglos, the internal "racial" divisions in Mexican society between criollos and mestizos were important enough to collect data on.

(And criollos considered themselves "white" and were unlikely to mark themselves as "Hispanic" if it were presented as a separate option.)

US ethnic relations are weird.

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#209
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just off the top of my head for countries that also track ethnicity/race in government statistics: Belgium (because the Walloon/Fleming ethnic divide is so central to its politics), Germany (under the euphemism "migration background"), Russia, Israel, Lebanon... Ethnicity is an extremely important identity category, and if you want to manage that diversity you need information.

France. No government agency can mention or ask about ethnicity - in particular, our national statistics agency, the INSEE. Private organizations can, but this is not often seen. I think its an heritage from WWII, in particular the "yellow star". France refuses to consider racial differences (and religious differences too), it seeks unity in everything, to the point that it almost drove local languages to extinction.…

> As a french person I object to this. It's all about culture, not face features.

I mean... yes? "Ethnicity" is a cultural category, not a genetic one. Specifically, its boundaries are socially-constructed, and the US is unusual in constructing said boundaries mostly around blood-quantum and hypodescent rules. e.g. the distinction between "Arab", "Jewish", "Circassian", &c ethnicities in Israeli identity documents is based on the specific criteria of those groups.

Re: How Homogeneous Is Japan?

#210
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just off the top of my head for countries that also track ethnicity/race in government statistics: Belgium (because the Walloon/Fleming ethnic divide is so central to its politics), Germany (under the euphemism "migration background"), Russia, Israel, Lebanon... Ethnicity is an extremely important identity category, and if you want to manage that diversity you need information.

> Just off the top of my head for countries that also track ethnicity/race in government statistics: Belgium (because the Walloon/Fleming ethnic divide is so central to its politics), Germany (under the euphemism "migration background") That is the point. They don't track race; they track country of birth, as does Japan. — this is an objective standard. The U.S.A. is rather unique in that it tracks subjective, self-r…

Russia and Israel track "ethnicity" based on, respectively, self-identification and the internal membership rules of each ethnic group.
Post reply on HN