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Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

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Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#281

Post by fermentation »

j4yav wrote: post #232
stupidcar wrote: post #59

If my employer tries to remain 100% remote I will leave and go somewhere with an office. I find working from home too lonely, and I detest spending hours of every day on video calls. Of course, I'm just a single data point, and perhaps not representative, but I'm also generally less social than other people, so I find it hard to believe there won't be a lot of people feeling the same. I'm sure that there will be a mu…

Working from home before and during lockdown were totally different, as something to consider. It was very social seeing my neighbors, dropping by the coffee shop, taking a stroll during lunch, and so on. Not saying you won't enjoy being back in the office, but it's something to consider that maybe you could fill that commute time and your social needs with something more local once your community reopens.

Do you think that lockdown remote work involves more video calls than pre-lockdown remote work?

Another commenter mentioned they saw more meetings during lockdown as a way for their managers to feel more in control, though for “real” remote companies I don’t see this being the case.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#282

Post by toomanybeersies »

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #189
cooleddy89 wrote: post #154

Many of these debates about work from home remind me of the arguments about “online banking” or “e-commerce” in the early internet days. One side argues that the interpersonal relationships are critical and can never be replicated fully online. The other points at the convenience factor and claims a higher productivity for all involved. The truth as always is somewhere in the middle. I do most of my banking online, b…

There's something more insidious to your analogy though. A lot of those banking jobs don't exist anymore. Any job that can be WFH will be easy to outsource. You aren't need in office so why do we even need you in this time zone? Outsource it cheap. If it really is manageable from a 30 min standup and Jira then why even bother with expensive devs? Before you had a small competitive market in a central location. Now yo…

> why even bother with expensive devs?

Because you get what you pay for. I am yet to hear of any cases where in the long run outsourcing development to a low-wage country actually saved money. Competent engineers generally follow the money and emigrate. Why earn $10k a year in India when you could earn $100k in the USA?

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#283

Post by petejames »

> Our survey evidence says that about 25 percent of all full work days will be supplied from home after the pandemic ends, compared with just 5 percent before.

25% seems reasonable to expect given not all jobs are suitable for remote.

Personally I think this is a tiny change compared to the changes coming with AI and automation.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#284

Post by fermentation »

DC1350 wrote: post #68
fartcannon wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, pick a big city? While it will definitely happen, it's unhealthy to befriend only coworkers. Learn how to make friends outside of your office life. That way your employer can't use your social life against you leaving. Trust me, after the pandemic, when the daily grind kicks in and your office life and daily commute drains every ounce of energy, you'll be happy to WFH.

> Well, pick a big city? I know. I guess it’s just choice paralysis.

Making friends in a new city is really hard even without covid.

Anecdotally I found meetup helped me out a lot. After a few weeks of awkward gatherings I finally found people I clicked pretty well with. Forcing yourself to go is hard though.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#285

Post by nilkn »

amw-zero wrote: post #155
Fordec wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of these tackle the one aspect that trumps everything else in the corporate world. Is this better for the company? Even if the majority of companies see things this way, they will return to the office. But those that succeed, survive, thrive or dominate a market will do whatever that makes them successful along the way. It doesn't matter if people like routine if the other guy beats you on revenue, time to marke…

Working together in person has to be 10 times more effective. Major doubt that anyone thinks remote working is actually more effective from the companies perspective. The only argument I ever here is that antisocial people prefer not seeing other people and getting their work done alone.

I'm an engineering manager, and I can say my teams are just as productive today (100% remote) as they were pre-COVID (100% in-office). I do have very high performing teams, though, and I'm sure that plays a role.

I think one "secret" is that we have small-ish teams (3-5 engineers), each with a very engaged and technically savvy leader. I've known other managers to have up to 20 IC reports. I can see that kind of structure falling apart when remote in such a way that your underperformers start completely slacking off and you're too busy to even notice. It's way harder for that to happen in smaller teams where your team lead/manager is very engaged in the team's work and your relative output is quite visible.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#286

Post by throwaway1777 »

randmeerkat wrote: post #262
ascotan wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

#2 is the biggest issue Management and non-management have different subcultures. Managers need power meetings, lunch meetings, shoulder-taps, etc. They are tasked with watching you and making sure everyone is on task. Non-managers don't care about in-person other than for the socializing aspect (or maybe they want to get away from the house). I think that non-management can work effectively remote most of the time (…

I think the big problem here is that most managers add zero value and if anything negatively impact velocity. Really all that’s needed is a project manager with a light touch to help the team know what features are needed by leadership. Then the team can use their freedom of direction to prioritise features along with existing technical work to optimise the technologies being leveraged to better position the business…

This is a ludicrous take. Read a book like high output management and learn what managers actually do and you might realize what value they should be providing.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#287

Post by jader201 »

irrational wrote: post #132
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #29

I've been 100% remote and run remote teams since 2014 and I promise that it won't stick for the broader society. Here's why: 1. Socializing is the primary activity that happens at work for the vast majority of workers. The gal or guy coming by your desk to "check in" or "see how your weekend was" etc... is literally where they find their social outlets and personal connections. 2. Managers like to be able to watch th…

1. This is the main reason I prefer remote working. I don’t like socializing. I’m there to work, not to chit chat. You’re not my friend, your a fellow worker. 2. Time to get a better manager who trusts you. 3. Commuting is a waste of time. I roll out of bed and immediately start working. The company loses on time I could be working by having me commute. 4. Yeah, I definitely can’t relate to this one.

> The company loses on time I could be working by having me commute.

Whoa, wait — why is it the company’s time to lose/gain back instead of yours?

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#288

Post by toomanybeersies »

mech422 wrote: post #60
throwaway45349 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very few companies have on-site gyms, snacks and child care. These are competitive advantages, and as long as top-tier SWEs are a sellers market, these businesses will have no choice but to spend money to attract talent. The cost of those things is a drop in the ocean compared to salaries anyway.

>>Very few companies have on-site gyms, snacks and child care. I'm not seeing your point here? it IS still a sellers market, and companies do pay for those things. So its still a savings for them. As for a 'drop in the bucket', I've seen companies try to save money by buying cheaper pens. So I'm sure cheaper rents, utilities, perks, etc. will be considered... edit: grammar

Generally companies are replacing office perks with WFH perks, like furniture stipends or paying for employee's individual gym memberships.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#289

Post by j4yav »

fermentation wrote: post #281
j4yav wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working from home before and during lockdown were totally different, as something to consider. It was very social seeing my neighbors, dropping by the coffee shop, taking a stroll during lunch, and so on. Not saying you won't enjoy being back in the office, but it's something to consider that maybe you could fill that commute time and your social needs with something more local once your community reopens.

Do you think that lockdown remote work involves more video calls than pre-lockdown remote work? Another commenter mentioned they saw more meetings during lockdown as a way for their managers to feel more in control, though for “real” remote companies I don’t see this being the case.

Yes, that's my personal experience. Companies with more experience doing remote do MUCH more async, and I think a lot of companies who are now pushed into remote are creating tons of meetings as a sort of crutch for not knowing what else to do.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#290

Post by vmception »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #29

I've been 100% remote and run remote teams since 2014 and I promise that it won't stick for the broader society. Here's why: 1. Socializing is the primary activity that happens at work for the vast majority of workers. The gal or guy coming by your desk to "check in" or "see how your weekend was" etc... is literally where they find their social outlets and personal connections. 2. Managers like to be able to watch th…

One overlooked aspect of 1 and 2: many founders are using their employees as a surrogate for healthy meaningful relationships.

And maybe the executives are actually just hanging out, from their perspective. galavanting around the city and schmoozing. having fun solving a problem they’re passionate about and having no negative consequence of having too much fun. hey as long as you’re only inappropriate with employees of another company in the co-working space the liability surface is limited!

so its not just about managerial control

but both of these kinds of people share the similarity of not being able to relate to the lower level employees

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