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Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

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Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#191

Post by almost_usual »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #146
irrational wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. This is the main reason I prefer remote working. I don’t like socializing. I’m there to work, not to chit chat. You’re not my friend, your a fellow worker. 2. Time to get a better manager who trusts you. 3. Commuting is a waste of time. I roll out of bed and immediately start working. The company loses on time I could be working by having me commute. 4. Yeah, I definitely can’t relate to this one.

For something you're going to spend your life doing, it's a horrible prospect to not expect to make friends at work. As a child did you spend 12 years not making friends in school, since school is for learning and not socialization?

It's important to be _friendly_ at work but there's no reason someone needs to make "friends".

I've made lifelong friends at work but it was in a setting where it was a small startup and the entire company literally fit in one room. It was almost impossible not to form relationships just because we spent so much time together.

Getting older, having a family, and working for big corp vesting RSUs? No, I'm not likely going to be making any friends at work.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#192

Post by 7thaccount »

ashtonkem wrote: post #158
calvinmorrison wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For something you're going to spend your life doing, it's a horrible prospect to not expect to make friends at work. As a child did you spend 12 years not making friends in school, since school is for learning and not socialization?

The average Millenial worker will job hop every 1-3 years. While it’s good to be friendly with your colleagues, you also shouldn’t build friend networks that get broken and reformed with such regularity.

I wonder if that is skewed my certain kinds of jobs (Ex: retail and software) where a skill is broadly transferable to many many other companies.

As a fairly specialized electrical engineer, I could still find employment at several other companies which do what I do, but I'm not itching to move (been at the same company for a decade). Is everyone on HN constantly shifting jobs?

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#193

Post by Spooky23 »

Fordec wrote: post #122
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #29

I've been 100% remote and run remote teams since 2014 and I promise that it won't stick for the broader society. Here's why: 1. Socializing is the primary activity that happens at work for the vast majority of workers. The gal or guy coming by your desk to "check in" or "see how your weekend was" etc... is literally where they find their social outlets and personal connections. 2. Managers like to be able to watch th…

None of these tackle the one aspect that trumps everything else in the corporate world. Is this better for the company? Even if the majority of companies see things this way, they will return to the office. But those that succeed, survive, thrive or dominate a market will do whatever that makes them successful along the way. It doesn't matter if people like routine if the other guy beats you on revenue, time to marke…

I don’t think it is.

The high performers work better, but half of the rest workers are doing nothing. I’m aware of people getting canned for stuff like outsourcing themselves, accidentally having sex on an open mic, illegally exporting computers to countries with export controls, etc since COVID.

Work at home is great for people with tangible outputs. I don’t want my salesmen fucking around in the office. But many workers with less well defined outputs are going to be harder to manage, and being in the office kept distractions away.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#194

Post by almost_usual »

7thaccount wrote: post #192
ashtonkem wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average Millenial worker will job hop every 1-3 years. While it’s good to be friendly with your colleagues, you also shouldn’t build friend networks that get broken and reformed with such regularity.

I wonder if that is skewed my certain kinds of jobs (Ex: retail and software) where a skill is broadly transferable to many many other companies. As a fairly specialized electrical engineer, I could still find employment at several other companies which do what I do, but I'm not itching to move (been at the same company for a decade). Is everyone on HN constantly shifting jobs?

For the Bay Area specifically:

1.) Small startups die often

2.) People vest their RSUs and realize their employer doesn't value them enough for a refresh so they take a giant pay cut hence start the job search

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#195

Post by phendrenad2 »

irrational wrote: post #132
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #29

I've been 100% remote and run remote teams since 2014 and I promise that it won't stick for the broader society. Here's why: 1. Socializing is the primary activity that happens at work for the vast majority of workers. The gal or guy coming by your desk to "check in" or "see how your weekend was" etc... is literally where they find their social outlets and personal connections. 2. Managers like to be able to watch th…

1. This is the main reason I prefer remote working. I don’t like socializing. I’m there to work, not to chit chat. You’re not my friend, your a fellow worker. 2. Time to get a better manager who trusts you. 3. Commuting is a waste of time. I roll out of bed and immediately start working. The company loses on time I could be working by having me commute. 4. Yeah, I definitely can’t relate to this one.

Some companies will go out of their way to force remote workers to socialize. When your boss sets up an online game you can't really say no.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#196

Post by Barrin92 »

terrencewells wrote: post #169

To those who prefer returning to office due to feeling isolated. Do you think your preferences could be influenced by the pandemic as well? Have you thought about how WFH could feel different with normal freedoms that come with a world without COVID-19?

I've done work from home pre-covid. Absolutely hated it after a month. My sleep schedule drifts off, I don't get to see coworkers, had to spent way too much time around relatives etc, I felt like I was trapped in that cabin from The Shining.

It's just way harder to organise going out for a drink after work if you're already at home. If you're in the office and it's a 10 min walk to the bar you just go. There's absolutely no spontaneity in working from home. At work you can have a conversation over dinner, or over a coffee or a smoke, it just doesn't work over Zoom.

Covid has been hell for my social life and probably at least 80% of people in my social circle feel the same. I honestly don't think any of this will persist.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#197

Post by geoduck14 »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #29

I've been 100% remote and run remote teams since 2014 and I promise that it won't stick for the broader society. Here's why: 1. Socializing is the primary activity that happens at work for the vast majority of workers. The gal or guy coming by your desk to "check in" or "see how your weekend was" etc... is literally where they find their social outlets and personal connections. 2. Managers like to be able to watch th…

>2. Managers like to be able to watch their direct reports because it makes them feel more in control than they are

Manager here. Initially, I had trouble with my inability to do this. Now that I've come to grips that I have NO idea if my team is actually at their computer, I now judge them based on if they actually get work done (vs are they "busy"). It has been a good shift, but not easy.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#199

Post by almost_usual »

amw-zero wrote: post #182
almost_usual wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure where you came up with this, judging by the number of product announcements on HN in the past year people seem pretty busy.

Did anyone have a choice in the matter?

Post COVID WFH and flexible in office work weeks are the norm now at least in the Bay Area. I'm sure being in person is 10x more productive for some fields but software engineering is not one of them. If it were we wouldn't have had a year of tech companies performing exceptionally well.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#200

Post by ryanSrich »

I doubt it.

Maybe those that haven’t been remote never saw this side of businesses, but as someone that will only work remotely, the options pre-Covid were exceedingly thin.

Almost no public companies allowed 100% remote work. Almost none. Honestly I can’t even name a single company that did, but I’m sure there is at least one right?

Also, it should be noted that when I say remote I mean they allow anyone, literally anyone that works at the company to work from Home. Not some one off anomaly for high performers (which I know companies like Google or Microsoft have allowed under certain circumstances).

Why companies have, and I think will continue to be , anti-remote and anti-worker is because of nepotism, elitism, and an over reliance on physical queues for communication.

It’s similar to how Silicon Valley is becoming Wall Street, with pay (often in clout) to play apps (ex: Clubhouse, which feels more like Harvard than an early social network - it’s also painfully uncool) and how they mirror closed minded and closed off business operations — these businesses and their yuppy middle managers rely on a physical presence to coerce employees into drinking the kool aid.

My hope is that employees start to reject these practices and instead force employers to accept remote work, but I’m doubtful since the leverage is mostly in the hands of business - think of the power FAANG companies have. Once they go back to forced commute work, everyone else will see it as an opportunity to do the same.

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