FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol • Hacker News Board

Re: FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol

#251

Post by hindsightbias » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 9:42 PM UTC

ramraj07 wrote: post #160

nabla9 wrote: post #33

Forensic methods used by police and intelligence go much deeper than just looking at phones near the crime scene. 1. They look at phones moving towards the crime scene and going dark when getting close. This is also how you can detect secret meetings between people. They move towards the same area and shut down their phones. 2. They look at suspect phone going dark anywhere around the time of the incident. 3. Leaving…

3 could also be perfect. Call your friend, let him come pick your phone up and show it a good time, while you go commit a crime, perfect alibi!

Browsing fingerprints would not be the same.

Re: FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol

#252

Post by ficklepickle » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 9:42 PM UTC

exporectomy wrote: post #229

simple_phrases wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ML is really good at picking up anomalies, and that is scary if, say, law enforcement or prosecutors are doing dragnet surveillance for anomalies in order to drum up charges.

They already do that with their human brains. I've been stopped by the police for: - Sitting in a parked car in a suburban street for too long. - Going shopping at 2am. - Walking under a bridge at night. It's OK as long as they quickly realize you're harmless and leave you alone.

Policing in the USA, to a nearby outsider, appears to be more about enforcing societal norms than safety or laws.

It seems to me they harass anyone they perceive to be abnormal.

As a delightfully abnormal human, I'm very glad I was born just north of the 49th parallel. It's not perfect, but I do feel free to be myself.

Re: FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol

#253

Post by vmception » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 9:43 PM UTC

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #210

vmception wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding 3 I’ve been thinking of launching a courier service for this that would pollute data on a wide scale. Basically a “phone walking” service that also charges your phone. Could just be a side gig for Uber drivers, having phone lock boxes in their cars. The infrastructure is already there, phone lock boxes for charging exist in airports and nightclubs. This would be one that moves.

It sounds to me like something that it would be basically impossible to get enough clients for that you could charge a small amount to make it worthwhile, so if you can't get a lot of clients you have to charge a large amount, but if you charge a large amount you shut even more people out that just are a little paranoid and care about the polluting data as a privacy thing, so basically at the point where your pricing…

Subscription service like everything else whether the subscribers use it often enough for themselves, drop a couple lockboxes in uber driver’s cars. Free advertising to other uber riders, no ongoing overhead costs for operation.

Service just needs to exist.

Its not economically “unviable” its also not economically “worth my time to make”, but for someone else that gets one idea in their life, maybe its worthwhile for them

Re: FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol

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Post by sobriquet9 » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 9:44 PM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #216

Gibbon1 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well GPS is 1.2 to 1.5GZ and you can get accuracy to a few meters easily. I have a higher end module that gets down to a meter[1]. Seems obvious that G4 which uses roughly same frequencies but with cell towers vastly closer than a GPS satellite could get 1M. [1] Give it a few minutes and it'll pin point where my desk is inside my office.

GPS does not use triangulation. It does some real dark arts physics wizardry to compute a position. Nothing like that can be done for cell phone signals.

Both GPS receivers and cell phone towers use the same basic approach based on the time it takes for the signal to travel between transmitter and receiver.

The only substantial difference is that in case of GPS the calculation happens on the receiver side (GPS signals only go in one direction), while cellular service providers calculate time advance on the tower side.

Re: FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol

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Post by sys_64738 » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 9:45 PM UTC

tamaharbor wrote: post #86

I find the rioting and looting and violence in American cities all summer much more disturbing than the half-assed attempt at the capitol. Especially when the violence continues in the nearby residential areas.

The people who invaded the Capitol Building are domestic terrorists who tried to overthrow the government. The former lot you refer to are just criminals. Huge difference.

Re: FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol

#256

Post by NotPavlovsDog » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 9:46 PM UTC

exporectomy wrote: post #203

suifbwish wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3 raises a very interesting and somewhat concerning possibility. In the near future as AI develops more in the crime detection arena you may become a suspect for crimes occurring in your geographical area based on things you are not doing or based on some set of states your smart devices have that match a statistical model of a suspicious person. The idea of becoming a suspect because you didn’t touch your smartphone…

There's nothing wrong with that as long as the law enforcement is trustworthy and competent. We do want to catch criminals. That's the whole point of having law enforcement. It's funny that in America, people seem to have so given up on the idea of the police being honest and competent that all they want is to reduce their power. They don't seem to want reform and instead would rather suffer from crime than be invest…

>There's nothing wrong with that as long as the law enforcement is trustworthy and competent

"there's nothing wrong with the death penalty if you can trust the legal system implicitly" Neil Gaiman, American Gods

Re: FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol

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Post by WarOnPrivacy » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 9:49 PM UTC

pdoege wrote: post #146

schoolornot wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AT&T is still installing Carrier IQ on almost all Androids. That application is collecting info like GPS and barometric readings to estimate floor location in a highrise, etc.

Absolutely. In addition all carriers use multi-lateration and sectorization to fine tune location. The better the location the more valuable it is for commercial resale and CALEA sales. Notice that all of this is entirely legal, above board, and you agreed to it as part of your service agreement. Source: I worked for AT&T and Carrier IQ

> you agreed to it as part of your service agreement

"Agree" implies willful consent and being in harmony with the implied outcome.

People accept because they have no meaningfully acceptable choice - which is the exact target that carriers aim for.

Re: FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol

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Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 9:51 PM UTC

heylook wrote: post #237

caseysoftware wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a smaller number of organized militia types compromised of former and active duty military and law enforcement I haven't seen anything about this. Can you share a link - especially pictures or video? I'd love to learn more. Thanks.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-usa-trump-capitol-arrests...

[deleted]

Re: FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol

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Post by nickysielicki » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 9:53 PM UTC

tiagod wrote: post #32

ev1 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5G significantly increases granularity by a metric shit ton, and if they were continually pinging in the same area, eventually you end up with roughly one zone.

Who the hell has a 5G device?

It doesn’t matter if you have a 5G device, it is a function of the increased tower density. Those towers are capable of the old frequencies, too.

Re: FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol

#260

Post by dcolkitt » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 9:54 PM UTC

hourislate wrote: post #82

All cells phones, at all times, are tracked everywhere. I'm sure there are 1000's of cameras that are also used to capture visual data (in DC area). Every person flying (domestic/international) is already tracked. MC/VISA/Bank/ATM records are tracked. Every txt, post, voice call, letter you send, package you receive, is tracked (OCR's). Your vehicle is tracked via programs like Onstar, etc, even if you don't sign up…

And yet, violent crime this year is at a multi-decade high[1]. It's one thing to suffer the indignity of a surveillance, but it's quite another when the surveillance doesn't even deliver its purported benefits.

[1] https://time.com/5922082/2020-gun-violence-homicides-record-...