FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol • Hacker News Board

Re: FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol

#81

Post by ipython » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 4:48 PM UTC

NDizzle wrote: post #48

ghouse wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were they reacting to their voting rights being taken away, or reacting to having been led to believe that their voting rights were taken away? I have seen no credible evidence that they were disenfranchised.

Well, we can't investigate because the ballots have already been shredded and the voting machines have already been re-imaged. Despite there being laws on the books that cover one, if not both of those cases, making it illegal to do those things. I guess that means nothing fishy was going on!

What investigative steps, taken by what body, would quell your concern about election fraud?

Re: FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol

#82

Post by hourislate » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 4:48 PM UTC

All cells phones, at all times, are tracked everywhere. I'm sure there are 1000's of cameras that are also used to capture visual data (in DC area). Every person flying (domestic/international) is already tracked. MC/VISA/Bank/ATM records are tracked. Every txt, post, voice call, letter you send, package you receive, is tracked (OCR's). Your vehicle is tracked via programs like Onstar, etc, even if you don't sign up for the service.

People are waiting for the day when you have zero privacy and anonymity. It's already here. Everyone should assume they can or are being tracked all the time.

Re: FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol

#83

Post by trident5000 » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 4:48 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #2

Presumably this also includes journalists and other people the government has no business tracking. At what point will people say enough is enough to these kinds of insane overreaches?

The same people complaining about the Patriot Act and cheering on Snowden for publicizing NSA PRISM are the same people cheering on govt mass triangulating civilians.

Re: FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol

#84

Post by VoodooJuJu » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 4:48 PM UTC

gibrown wrote: post #4

sneak wrote: post #2

Presumably this also includes journalists and other people the government has no business tracking. At what point will people say enough is enough to these kinds of insane overreaches?

Huh? Insane? The capitol was assaulted in order to prevent the democratically elected president. An actual insurrection which maybe had some attempted assassination and theft/sale of national security secrets mixed in. Seems like a pretty reasonable response.

>assault on the capitol; insurrection; attempted assassination

I just want to point out the two problems with the rhetoric that mass-media and you are using to describe this event:

1. These words confer explosions, gunfire, and mass loss of life. In using these words, you are conjuring extremely violent images within the minds of your listeners. When your listeners discover the truth of the event, that the images you've associated with the event do not match what actually happened, your listeners feel manipulated, they feel you're trying to deceive them, and you lose credibility.

2. If enough people keep parroting these particular words to describe this event, the meanings of these words become diluted. For example, prior to this event at the capitol, if you said "terrorist attack", my mind would imagine men wearing balaclavas, wielding AK's, beheading people on video, gassing villages filled with innocent families, scattering them as refugees across the globe. But now, if we accept this event at the capitol as a "terrorist attack", now I don't know if you're talking about a guy smiling and waving as he holds a podium, or if you mean a Wahabbi extremist raping a Yazidi woman after putting a bullet in her son's head.

Imagine this woman recounting her rape and the murder of her family, "I experienced a horrific terrorist attack." And then there's you, in referring to some guy taking a selfie at a politician's desk, "I witnessed a horrific terrorist attack."

Please, choose more precise, more honest words.

Re: FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol

#85

Post by schoolornot » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 4:49 PM UTC

DebtDeflation wrote: post #8

>"And they can actually pinpoint on Google Maps exactly where you were standing. Like, he knew where I was standing on the sidewalk, like specifically, based on my cell phone ping." You don't get that level of granularity by merely triangulating cell tower pings. Sounds like they got GPS location data from people's Google accounts.

AT&T is still installing Carrier IQ on almost all Androids. That application is collecting info like GPS and barometric readings to estimate floor location in a highrise, etc.

Re: FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol

#86

Post by tamaharbor » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 4:50 PM UTC

I find the rioting and looting and violence in American cities all summer much more disturbing than the half-assed attempt at the capitol. Especially when the violence continues in the nearby residential areas.

Re: FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol

#87

Post by caseysoftware » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 4:51 PM UTC

stonecraftwolf wrote: post #17

hcurtiss wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that was an actual insurrection or attempted assassination, it was the weakest effort imaginable. That doesn’t necessarily change the thrust of your comment (that enforcement is appropriate) but the breathless hyperbole around what happened has really surprised me. An actual insurrection would have looked very different. More guns and C4, fewer selfies.

Just because you failed at crime doesn’t mean you didn’t commit a crime. Attempted murder is still a thing. And I think you should probably read more about what actually happened. The initial photos were of idiots in horns and face paint and that has colored the public perception of what happened, but the clownshow gave cover to a smaller number of organized militia types compromised of former and active duty militar…

> a smaller number of organized militia types compromised of former and active duty military and law enforcement

I haven't seen anything about this. Can you share a link - especially pictures or video? I'd love to learn more. Thanks.

Re: FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol

#88

Post by bilbo0s » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 4:55 PM UTC

suifbwish wrote: post #77

nabla9 wrote: post #33

Forensic methods used by police and intelligence go much deeper than just looking at phones near the crime scene. 1. They look at phones moving towards the crime scene and going dark when getting close. This is also how you can detect secret meetings between people. They move towards the same area and shut down their phones. 2. They look at suspect phone going dark anywhere around the time of the incident. 3. Leaving…

3 raises a very interesting and somewhat concerning possibility. In the near future as AI develops more in the crime detection arena you may become a suspect for crimes occurring in your geographical area based on things you are not doing or based on some set of states your smart devices have that match a statistical model of a suspicious person. The idea of becoming a suspect because you didn’t touch your smartphone…

This already happens, most of us just don't live in the neighborhoods where it happens. That's the unfortunate reality of today's America. It's also the reason that these techniques will be employed in a ubiquitous fashion in tomorrow's America.

If we wanted to stop this, the time to complain was years ago when the practice was started in the drug war. Or even recently, when the practice was employed during the BLM riots. Any attempt to stop it now brings howls of racism. Causing police departments and other law enforcement agencies to double down on insisting that they use it on everyone in their attempts to prove the people screaming racism wrong.

Re: FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol

#89

Post by trident5000 » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

hourislate wrote: post #82

All cells phones, at all times, are tracked everywhere. I'm sure there are 1000's of cameras that are also used to capture visual data (in DC area). Every person flying (domestic/international) is already tracked. MC/VISA/Bank/ATM records are tracked. Every txt, post, voice call, letter you send, package you receive, is tracked (OCR's). Your vehicle is tracked via programs like Onstar, etc, even if you don't sign up…

Putting my tin foil hat on real quick. Just wait until they implement AI into all these sensors to "predict crimes", turning life into Minority Report. The interesting part is its the common people who will naively go along with it to feel more safe while at the same time further imprisoning themselves.

Re: FBI agents track cell phones that pinged near the Capitol

#90

Post by superkuh » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 4:59 PM UTC

hourislate wrote: post #82

All cells phones, at all times, are tracked everywhere. I'm sure there are 1000's of cameras that are also used to capture visual data (in DC area). Every person flying (domestic/international) is already tracked. MC/VISA/Bank/ATM records are tracked. Every txt, post, voice call, letter you send, package you receive, is tracked (OCR's). Your vehicle is tracked via programs like Onstar, etc, even if you don't sign up…

Just don't use services that track you. It's possible to live a fairly normal life despite all this. I do it. Don't carry a cell phone, turn off javascript everywhere, use a non-onstar/etc car, don't fly commercially, use cash for in person transactions and bitcoin (or monero) online where you can.

All that said, I'm not planning on trying to overthrow the government or anything stupid. I just don't like being spied on. I'm glad these treasonous idiots carried their ankle bracelets (cell phones) while they committed their crimes.

I'm not too surprised at the spatial resolution that basestation multi-lateration gave either. The low noise and synchronization of clocks in modern cell phone basestations are getting really good. GPS is not required.