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Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

theguardian.com

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Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#91

Post by youngtaff »

rmah wrote: post #63
youngtaff wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sheep farming is pretty uneconomic in the UK, and sheep are destructive beasts so lynx reducing their numbers might be a good thing

Um, then why are there 22.5 mil sheep in the UK for just 67mil people? Contrast this to 5.2 mil sheep in the US for 330 mil people. It must be at least marginally profitable for so many sheep to be raised in the UK (or are agriculture subsidies really that large and widespread in the UK?)

UK is a net exported of lamb (or was prior to Brexit) - https://ahdb.org.uk/news/uk-lamb-self-sufficiency-and-impact...

Sheep farming is mainly done on uplands and requires massive subsidies to give farmers a ‘liveable’ income

To my mind it's far better to stop farming sheep and pay the farmers to rewild the hills

Alternatively we could just stop subsidising sheep farmers let them go bust and the hills will rewild themselves

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#92

Post by Leherenn »

ethbr0 wrote: post #21
rozab wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Caledonian Forest disappeared long before the Industrial Revolution: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caledonian_Forest >An examination of the earliest maps of Scotland suggests that the extent of the Caledonian Forest remnants has changed little since 1600.

Be that as it may, the ancient world definitely went through a lot of trees, when they were the principle source of energy. To put that in some perspective, a Roman legion (roughly 5,000 men) in the Late Republic might have carried into battle around 44,000kg (c. 48.5 tons) of iron – not counting pots, fittings, picks, shovels and other tools we know they used. That iron equipment in turn might represent the mining o…

I think his point was that in Europe, most deforestation happened much earlier than the industrial revolution, and he wanted to clear the relatively common misconception that everything was green until the industrial revolution.

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#93

Post by MaxBarraclough »

pvaldes wrote: post #64
peteretep wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the actual... > Eurasian Lynx is so endangered in UK that is in fact locally extinct. You can't be more endangered than that. Eurasian Lynx is listed as “Least Concern”. That there aren’t any in Scotland has no bearing on this. This is a bewildering comment. > Aggressive is relative ... some crap about zebras It will be _the_ apex predator in the UK. It can bring down a deer. Wild comparisons to Africa and pack…

A species can be common in some place and critically endangered in other at the same time. Wildlife managers are enough smart to distinguish between the global and local situations. And talking about that, I had seen before hunters bragging about how they can solve in a week what the stupid biologists were unable to solve in ten years. They always say the same. Ok. Do it. Try it. I'll be waiting here. I still haven't…

> I had seen before hunters bragging about how they can solve in a week what the stupid biologists were unable to solve in ten years. They always say the same. Ok. Do it. Try it. I'll be waiting here.

What's the explanation here? Are there just not enough hunters in the UK?

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#94

Post by nix23 »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #7

Lynx are extremely photogenic, but I can't help wondering - why? They're not endangered, they are aggressive predators, and Scotland's ecology isn't obviously in need of them. The fact that they were common half a millennium ago when the ecosystem was very different doesn't seem particularly relevant. So if this is just for tourism and/or as a vanity project and there are no solid ecological or scientific reasons, I'…

>and Scotland's ecology isn't obviously in need of them

Restoring nature to it's former self. No one would need Human Hunters if the Nature is still intact and balances itself, and sometimes Human Hunters cannot balance Nature from lets say from a mice-plague, so you have to kill them with toxic, some of them are still eaten by Owl/Eagle/Fox and are poisoned too, less Owls for the next year(s) means even more mice, so you need more toxins and the circle repeats.

Lynx Fox Wolf and Bear balance the nature and also balance each other. There are many more points why a intact nature is also better for Humans, but the Mouse sample should be enough.

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#95

Post by russholmes »

KMag wrote: post #82
peanut_merchant wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most land in Scotland is owned by large estate owners (think castles and thousands of acres). We have extremely strict gun control and hunting is usually limited to employees of the estates or visitors who have paid a hefty fee to hunt on the estate. Hunting here is much more controlled and limited than it is in North America or elsewhere. Source: Highlands born and raised, live in Canada.

I suppose that without much in the way of forests, bow hunting deer also isn't much of a thing in the highlands.

Bow hunting is illegal in the UK. Permitted firearms and ammunition are also regulated on animal cruelty grounds. http://www.thedeerinitiative.co.uk/uploads/guides/90.pdf

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#96

Post by Scarblac »

pacaro wrote: post #50
sandworm101 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deer, and rabbits. Lynx are designed to eat rabbits.

Lynx are native to Scotland, I don't believe that rabbits are, they are usually considered to have been introduced by the Normans in the 12th century. According to the wikipedia article the lynx appears to have a pretty varied diet

Why wouldn't rabbits be native? It's not so long ago that Great Britain was connected to mainland Europe, so I'd think that most of the same animals would be present both sides of the North Sea.

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#97

Post by jessaustin »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #85
jessaustin wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crossbows are easy to use and don't alarm neighbors. Venison is delicious and nutritious. Butchering a deer is a fun and educational project for the whole family, and requires very little equipment: knives and a big table, plus a tree limb and some rope for the initial skinning. This is yet another problem that people could solve for themselves, if enough of them cared to do so.

I'm not sure how much experience you have with hunting, but deer stalking is hard , even more so with a crossbow instead of a rifle. Not to mention the investment in time and money involved with hunting.

I killed my first when I was 13. I have killed many with rifle and bow, from treestands and from the ground, in rural Missouri and Colorado. I replied to an observation about suburban Midwestern USA deer, which is a completely different thing. Deer that won't leave your yard can be killed with a crossbow shot from your back porch. I recommended a crossbow because they are legal in most states now during the lengthy bow seasons (a development to which I strenuously if foolishly objected), they aren't as disturbing to your neighbors, and they are safer to use in a suburban setting.

I certainly don't recommend anyone "stalk" across the denuded Scottish hills.

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#98

Post by jessaustin »

chrisbennet wrote: post #76
jessaustin wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crossbows are easy to use and don't alarm neighbors. Venison is delicious and nutritious. Butchering a deer is a fun and educational project for the whole family, and requires very little equipment: knives and a big table, plus a tree limb and some rope for the initial skinning. This is yet another problem that people could solve for themselves, if enough of them cared to do so.

I grew up eating deer and partridge (ruffed grouse) and in my opinion, they aren't delicious. They don't taste good because the have very little fat. (Moose do taste good for some reason.) To make deer hamburgers you have to add beef fat. If you have eaten wild game that tasted good I suspect it was augmented in some way. We used have some sort of gravy or marinade on deer meat and pin some bacon on partridge. "Gordo…

I haven't eaten partridge. Venison is low in fat, so it requires different techniques than beef or pork. Braising (even crock-potting) will work better than roasting or grilling. Frying, including stir-frying, also works well. To me these are simply different techniques, but those who consider gravy exotic might call them "augmentation". If one must roast, by all means do as Mr. Ramsay and fry first. I submit that his dish would have been better sous-vide, but the loin will be good as long as you don't burn it.

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#99

Post by rozab »

ethbr0 wrote: post #21
rozab wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Caledonian Forest disappeared long before the Industrial Revolution: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caledonian_Forest >An examination of the earliest maps of Scotland suggests that the extent of the Caledonian Forest remnants has changed little since 1600.

Be that as it may, the ancient world definitely went through a lot of trees, when they were the principle source of energy. To put that in some perspective, a Roman legion (roughly 5,000 men) in the Late Republic might have carried into battle around 44,000kg (c. 48.5 tons) of iron – not counting pots, fittings, picks, shovels and other tools we know they used. That iron equipment in turn might represent the mining o…

Right! But as I understand it, most of this wood was from managed forest, which allowed for much more efficient harvesting and also allowed for controlling various qualities of the wood.

Lindybeige has a good video on the topic. It doesn't quite go back to Roman times though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVPUFMwm73Y

Re: Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands

#100

Post by chrisbennet »

jessaustin wrote: post #98
chrisbennet wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up eating deer and partridge (ruffed grouse) and in my opinion, they aren't delicious. They don't taste good because the have very little fat. (Moose do taste good for some reason.) To make deer hamburgers you have to add beef fat. If you have eaten wild game that tasted good I suspect it was augmented in some way. We used have some sort of gravy or marinade on deer meat and pin some bacon on partridge. "Gordo…

I haven't eaten partridge. Venison is low in fat, so it requires different techniques than beef or pork. Braising (even crock-potting) will work better than roasting or grilling. Frying, including stir-frying, also works well. To me these are simply different techniques, but those who consider gravy exotic might call them "augmentation". If one must roast, by all means do as Mr. Ramsay and fry first. I submit that hi…

What I meant, it isn't inherently delicious like steak (IMO). You could probably make SPAM edible if you put enough other stuff with it.

BTW: To me, rabbit tastes like boiled chicken.

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