Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#391

Post by pbhjpbhj » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 9:50 AM UTC

CodeGlitch wrote: post #381

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #235

> ... have been removed from Facebook with no explanation given At the very least, this should be unacceptable. You shouldn't get banned for something if you aren't told what you did. If it was for use of the word revolutionary, it should say so. Or if they called for some leader's heads, it should say so. Then they could avoid doing the same in the future and we could all agree with or criticize the rationale. As it…

It's Facebook's platform, they can remove anyone they want without explanation or transparency. The sooner people realise this, the sooner people will stop using Facebook - which in my opinion is a good thing. The SWP could instead have their own website (which they do) and the ability to subscribe to their newsletters via email (they may have this already). Further to this they could setup their own forum on their o…

'Why would anyone go to parliament to talk, there are so many other buildings to talk in'.

I don't believe you are really that clueless about online social networks.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#392

Post by EliRivers » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 9:57 AM UTC

ssakamoto wrote: post #291

kypro wrote: post #287

How is this not foreign political interference? The UK media has been preaching to us about dangers of Russian election interference for years at this point, but simultaneously they seem completely unconcerned that a handful of wealthy Americans how the power to censor popular media outlets, entire political movements and political activists at a whim. The SWP is massive. I don't know for sure, but I suspect they had…

Facebook is a private company and can do whatever they want.

Are they not a public company? Sure are publicly traded.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#393

Post by pbhjpbhj » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 9:58 AM UTC

csense wrote: post #254

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #235

> ... have been removed from Facebook with no explanation given At the very least, this should be unacceptable. You shouldn't get banned for something if you aren't told what you did. If it was for use of the word revolutionary, it should say so. Or if they called for some leader's heads, it should say so. Then they could avoid doing the same in the future and we could all agree with or criticize the rationale. As it…

One of the problems with this is opening up to criticism, liability, and further argumentation. If you say "We removed them because of their political views," then you get criticized for being openly partisan. If you say "We removed them because their comments were inciting violence," you'll get arguments about how their comments didn't actually tell people to do violent things (for example, in the US I'm sure for th…

> Instead, 99% of the time they'll turn your explanation into another reason to be enraged at you, or argue you need to reconsider, or even sue you because that line of reasoning makes you liable. //

Which is 'fine', let them be enraged. Transparency shows it to be fair and removes the ability to reasonably argue otherwise. Then at least one can decide if the platform is right for you, and indeed of the rules are anti-democratic we can move for changing them.

'I'm so enraged, $platform said that inciting violence wasn't allowed, then I incited violence and got censored', whose going to rally around that flag?

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#394

Post by cm2187 » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 9:58 AM UTC

adventured wrote: post #329

boomboomsubban wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How is this not foreign political interference? America doesn't "interfere" in elections, it gently persuades people to follow the true democratic path. Truthfully, it is nothing more than American exceptionalism. Even as our nation spent years outraged over Russian interference, we continued both private and public interference in elections worldwide.

> Even as our nation spent years outraged over Russian interference Only a minority of the country was (supposedly) outraged about the mostly non-existent Russian interference. Most of the US knew it was bullshit the entire time, the Russians had near zero impact on the prior election (amazing how they didn't somehow swing this latest election, given their apparent god-like powers, despite how close it was). Trump's…

What I find remarkable is that all the claims of russian/chinese/iranian interferences in US elections suddenly stopped when it became clear Biden won, and we switched to “it’s a perfect election”. It seems that Trump’s warning of not interfering into US elections have worked and the said countries complied. And we were told only weeks before voting day of evidences of those interferences, so I assume they also complied retroactively.

The brave new world of “post-truth”.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#395

Post by cm2187 » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 9:59 AM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #331

adventured wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even as our nation spent years outraged over Russian interference Only a minority of the country was (supposedly) outraged about the mostly non-existent Russian interference. Most of the US knew it was bullshit the entire time, the Russians had near zero impact on the prior election (amazing how they didn't somehow swing this latest election, given their apparent god-like powers, despite how close it was). Trump's…

People went to jail over it. At least until they were pardoned by the president.

For tax fraud and falling into perjury traps. Not for colluding with Russia.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#396

Post by roenxi » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 10:04 AM UTC

simonh wrote: post #384

roenxi wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... I don’t care how ineffective it was. I’d want it investigated and stopped. The level of interference to the election was so trivial I doubt you can back that attitude up. At some level of ineffectiveness, having an investigation and stopping the activity is more costly than just ignoring it. Investigations take time, money and it turns out have collateral damage: Looking at the charges out of the Mueller invest…

How on earth are you going to find out how effective interference was, or the extent of it, if you don't investigate it?

The same question could be put after every election on a variety of integrity-related issues - and indeed, probably is. The exercise of asking and answering is pretty much strictly political, no matter how much fire and fury the bystanders are raining down.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#397

Post by simonh » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 10:06 AM UTC

Emma_Goldman wrote: post #386

simonh wrote: post #368

For any non-Brits, the SWP is the main left of Labour party in Britain. As a student in the 80s I remember them as an earnest, way too serious bunch of ideological zombies ranting into microphones at the Student's Union about the latest crimes against humanity perpetrated by 'Thatcher'. They're the kind of people that come up to you in the street with leaflets about some atrocity in Africa and shout "Would you murder…

You are over-stating the significance of the SWP. Maybe what you say is true of the 80s, but it isn't today. They are not the main party to the left of Labour, the greens are. The greens have 50,000 members and received 850,000 votes in the 2019 election, the SWP has a few thousand members and does not even field candidates. In my experience they have little influence on the Labour grassroots. The SWP's standing amon…

I'm sure you're right. I'm well on the way to being outdated myself.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#398

Post by pjc50 » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 10:09 AM UTC

simonh wrote: post #368

For any non-Brits, the SWP is the main left of Labour party in Britain. As a student in the 80s I remember them as an earnest, way too serious bunch of ideological zombies ranting into microphones at the Student's Union about the latest crimes against humanity perpetrated by 'Thatcher'. They're the kind of people that come up to you in the street with leaflets about some atrocity in Africa and shout "Would you murder…

"Antifa" is more of a self applied label; you can certainly see antifa logos at demos.

The SWP are Trotskyist, in the sense of "March through the institutions". If you're doing anything left wing they will turn up and try to make it about them, take over organization positions, etc. The SWP are mostly your boring old lefty uncle, with a side of institutional rape apologia: https://www.gender-agenda.org.uk/not-my-comrades-on-dealing-... (this is not only their problem, it can happen in any organization that doesn't take active steps to avoid it)

I suppose the canary for partisan moderation should be Sinn Fein; they were banned from television in the 90s.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#399

Post by Veen » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 10:15 AM UTC

Emma_Goldman wrote: post #386

simonh wrote: post #368

For any non-Brits, the SWP is the main left of Labour party in Britain. As a student in the 80s I remember them as an earnest, way too serious bunch of ideological zombies ranting into microphones at the Student's Union about the latest crimes against humanity perpetrated by 'Thatcher'. They're the kind of people that come up to you in the street with leaflets about some atrocity in Africa and shout "Would you murder…

You are over-stating the significance of the SWP. Maybe what you say is true of the 80s, but it isn't today. They are not the main party to the left of Labour, the greens are. The greens have 50,000 members and received 850,000 votes in the 2019 election, the SWP has a few thousand members and does not even field candidates. In my experience they have little influence on the Labour grassroots. The SWP's standing amon…

Given your username, I'm curious. Are there many left anarchist activists in the UK at the moment? I had some tenuous contact with the ACF in the late-90s, but it doesn't seem a very active or impactful part of the political landscape.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#400

Post by im3w1l » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 10:22 AM UTC

simonh wrote: post #368

For any non-Brits, the SWP is the main left of Labour party in Britain. As a student in the 80s I remember them as an earnest, way too serious bunch of ideological zombies ranting into microphones at the Student's Union about the latest crimes against humanity perpetrated by 'Thatcher'. They're the kind of people that come up to you in the street with leaflets about some atrocity in Africa and shout "Would you murder…

Antifa shows up to other groups' protests to start fights and engage in political violence, sometimes with deadly consequences. Is that what SWP does too?