One hull crack located in ISS, another one suspected • Hacker News Board

Re: One hull crack located in ISS, another one suspected

#141

Post by elihu » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 3:45 AM UTC

gizmo686 wrote: post #23

ChuckMcM wrote: post #2

Materials aging in space is a pretty deep subject. That it is the Russian Zvevda module that is leaking/cracking is likely related to the fact that it is also the oldest module in the ISS. The ISS is/was scheduled to be retired in 2024 (aka 3 years from now) but there are calls to keep it going. My fantasy would be to have SpaceX move it into the Lunar L1 Lagrange point which would keep it in use but it would have to…

Is there any reason to park in at a Lagrange point instead of just a high orbit? There aren't that many Lagrange points, so we should probably avoid cluttering them with objects that don't need to be there.

At some point, if you go too high you end up in the Van Allen belts, which if I understand correctly are a really harsh place for spacecraft to be. Generally those orbits are used for parking bulky rubbish that's too much trouble to de-orbit.

Geosynchronous orbits are above the worst parts of the radiation belts, so maybe that's a good place for the ISS. Or even higher; it doesn't need to be geosynchronous. The main advantage of a low orbit is that it's easier to get to from Earth, but if you're just parking it long-term as a museum piece that doesn't matter as much.

I wouldn't expect Lagrange points to have much of a problem with clutter unless we decide to start parking enormous quantities of stuff there. Objects can spread out and orbit the points; as long as they're all going in about the same direction they should be able to avoid running into each other.

Re: One hull crack located in ISS, another one suspected

#142

Post by arthurcolle » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 3:47 AM UTC

Can they duct tape it from outside?

Re: One hull crack located in ISS, another one suspected

#143

Post by nitrogen » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 3:54 AM UTC

MisterTea wrote: post #62

ChuckMcM wrote: post #2

Materials aging in space is a pretty deep subject. That it is the Russian Zvevda module that is leaking/cracking is likely related to the fact that it is also the oldest module in the ISS. The ISS is/was scheduled to be retired in 2024 (aka 3 years from now) but there are calls to keep it going. My fantasy would be to have SpaceX move it into the Lunar L1 Lagrange point which would keep it in use but it would have to…

> Parking it in L4 or L5 could keep it for future generations but it would be even more of a challenge to go visit. "If your planet has one or more broken down space stations on its lawn, you might be a redneck colony." (Sorry.)

Missed opportunity to replace "lawn" with "Lagrange"

Re: One hull crack located in ISS, another one suspected

#144

Post by taneq » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 3:58 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #128

akiselev wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That it is the Russian Zvevda module that is leaking/cracking is likely related to the fact that it is also the oldest module in the ISS. Definitely sounds like it. They can't identify the leak on the inside so it doesn't sound like a micrometeoroid impact and they suspect a second leak that is so small they need a microscope to verify: > "So far, we have found one place and suspect another, where as some kind of l…

If the leaks are that small, sounds like putting an elastic coating on it should fix it.

A can of this should do it: https://www.holtsauto.com/holts/products/tyreweld/

Re: One hull crack located in ISS, another one suspected

#145

Post by rcthompson » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 4:01 AM UTC

tomcam wrote: post #33

akiselev wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That it is the Russian Zvevda module that is leaking/cracking is likely related to the fact that it is also the oldest module in the ISS. Definitely sounds like it. They can't identify the leak on the inside so it doesn't sound like a micrometeoroid impact and they suspect a second leak that is so small they need a microscope to verify: > "So far, we have found one place and suspect another, where as some kind of l…

Hmm... my first encounter with "IANAMS" in the wild. Assume it means "I am not a materials scientist"? I like it.

Part of the joke is that's it's NASA.

(NASA stands for Not A Standard Acronym, of course.)

Re: One hull crack located in ISS, another one suspected

#146

Post by wahern » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 4:04 AM UTC

HenryKissinger wrote: post #89

HPsquared wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are the cause of the stress cycles. Components don't expand/contact uniformly, resulting in deformation and therefore stress. This process goes through cycles, causing stress cycles which eventually cause the growth of cracks (fatigue).

Have we invented a material that is resistant to these thermal cycles indefinitely, or at least within a range of temperatures of several thousand degrees? I'm never going to have my own Star Destroyer if we continue to use subpar materials.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue_limit

Re: One hull crack located in ISS, another one suspected

#147

Post by mynameisash » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 4:04 AM UTC

lsllc wrote: post #42

ChuckMcM wrote: post #2

Materials aging in space is a pretty deep subject. That it is the Russian Zvevda module that is leaking/cracking is likely related to the fact that it is also the oldest module in the ISS. The ISS is/was scheduled to be retired in 2024 (aka 3 years from now) but there are calls to keep it going. My fantasy would be to have SpaceX move it into the Lunar L1 Lagrange point which would keep it in use but it would have to…

I think we need a "Space New Deal", I'm honestly saddened by the lack of progress in space in my lifetime. I mean we've done some great work, but we haven't made any giant leaps since getting to the moon 51.5 years ago. Thankfully, we do have SpaceX et. al. who really are making some big strides -- but how do we multiply & speed up that effort? ... sorry, I'm being selfish, but I really want to go to Mars.

> I'm honestly saddened by the lack of progress in space in my lifetime

I just told my youngest kid this the other day:

When I was his age (~25 yrs ago), my dad told me with a bit of a sad look on his face, "I hope we return to the moon within your lifetime." At the time, I kind of laughed because, hey, we're sending people to the moon CONSTANTLY. It took me a minute to realize that I was sorely mistaken and that we haven't sent a human to the moon at ALL in my lifetime. I was taken aback.

All this history about Neil Armstrong and the Apollo missions and the space shuttles -- we even got to see from Cocoa Beach a shuttle launch on a family vacation. So much of it even from MY DAD's youth, him telling us about when he got to hear the famous "One small step for [a] man" live from his Scout Jamboree trip. All of that, and we haven't actually been to the moon in decades? It totally blew my mind.

I think before that moment, I must have assumed that it was Real Soon Now before we'd have a permanent base with people living and even being born. And to learn that we sort of gave up...

It's not unlike when I was six and remembered reading about fully autonomous cars that were coming Real Soon Now, too. Thirty+ years later and that reality actually seems farther away than I had imagined despite the actual progress we've made.

Re: One hull crack located in ISS, another one suspected

#148

Post by segfaultbuserr » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 4:05 AM UTC

keyle wrote: post #60

I burst into laughter reading the Russian's quotes. I love how casual the astronaut is about it! I'm no astronaut but I wouldn't be sleeping with crack in my hull, leaking air.

> He underscored that air loss due to the crack are insignificant. "This leak is like as if you’d drill the hull with a 0.2 mm diameter drill. I’m not sure such drills even exist in household.

I had to check my collection of PCB drill bits when I was reading it, and yes, I confirm that I'm a proud owner of a 0.2 mm drill at home, it was the smallest one in the box ;-)

Re: One hull crack located in ISS, another one suspected

#149

Post by jccooper » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 4:07 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #128

akiselev wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That it is the Russian Zvevda module that is leaking/cracking is likely related to the fact that it is also the oldest module in the ISS. Definitely sounds like it. They can't identify the leak on the inside so it doesn't sound like a micrometeoroid impact and they suspect a second leak that is so small they need a microscope to verify: > "So far, we have found one place and suspect another, where as some kind of l…

If the leaks are that small, sounds like putting an elastic coating on it should fix it.

They have put tape on suspected leak areas in Zvezda before.

Re: One hull crack located in ISS, another one suspected

#150

Post by elihu » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 4:08 AM UTC

headwayoldest wrote: post #5

ChuckMcM wrote: post #2

Materials aging in space is a pretty deep subject. That it is the Russian Zvevda module that is leaking/cracking is likely related to the fact that it is also the oldest module in the ISS. The ISS is/was scheduled to be retired in 2024 (aka 3 years from now) but there are calls to keep it going. My fantasy would be to have SpaceX move it into the Lunar L1 Lagrange point which would keep it in use but it would have to…

I realize their orbit is relatively clear of debris and micro meteors, but is this materials decomposing or degrading and not random damage and happenstance? The ISS has no doubt been important and I remember how excited I was when it was being assembled. Is it really so historically significant it's worth the amount of effort you're describing?

> Is it really so historically significant it's worth the amount of effort you're describing?

Space launches are getting a lot cheaper, so moving the ISS to another orbit might not be such a big deal as it used to be. We don't really need to keep the ISS around forever, but on the other hand, losing it would in some ways be similar to the burning of Notre Dame in 2019 (I can't believe that was less than two years ago). It's mankind's first permanent foothold in space. In that sense, it's irreplaceable.

Let's say moving the ISS at the end of its usable lifespan costs a half billion dollars. That's like asking every U.S. taxpayer to pay about two dollars. Is it worth it? To me I think it's worth a lot more than two dollars, even if it unlikely that i'll ever actually be able to visit the ISS in my lifetime.