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Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

swp.org.uk

71–80 of 550 posts

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#71
post #41

Honestly, I'd be happy to see all political groups - left or right - expunged from Facebook. Politics and social media clearly do not mix, as this year has demonstrated all too brutally well.

The problem is when people are able to be blocked/filtered out, so then all rational/reasonable voices are lost from the conversations. If these irrational people had to filter through rational/reasoned long-form and short responses, I'd be curious to know what the outcome would be.

This is the idea that among a group the reasonable voices will prevail. Seen elsewhere:

>One unintended consequence of crushing speech on the right is that sane righties lose the ability to talk lunatics out of crazy. Back in the old days, I had many conversations talking sense into conspiracists from Rothschild to contrails. They listened to me because I’m credible in a way CNN is not. Now, instead, I shut up. I fear we’re about to embark on an unfortunate experiment to rediscover why, precisely, free speech has for 300 years been considered a bedrock necessity for a civilized society.

It’s entirely this. It’s not just “now I shut up” though, it’s ”I had no idea there was a group planning on doing xyz, because they were mad about abc, never heard anything about that in my Facebook timeline!”

The reasonable voices are either not participating because they have been “nudged” not to, or they are afraid of the consequences of being open and honest about their ideas. Let’s not pretend the upvote/downvote systems aren’t SPECIFICALLY for this.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#72
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SWP is not by any stretch of the imagination a major political party. ETA: to quantify that a bit, in the 2010 General Election the SWP ran as part of the Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition. Nationally that coalition received 0.04% of votes cast. I can't find any indication that they even put up any candidates in subsequent elections.

Does this actually affect the correctness of their point? Acting like a reaction to a politically charged breach of the capitol building is equivalent to a page sharing views about COVID and workers rights getting removed? It actually feels absurd to type that sentence out...

I was correcting what looked like a significant misapprehension about the subject of the thread, not arguing for a comparison.

Although I can't see anything in throwaways885's comment to suggest that they were talking about the post-Capitol-breach purges. If anything, "for a while" suggests the opposite.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#73
Well this is an outrage ... Oh, it's the SWP. They've arguably done more to damage left wing politics in the UK than any number of police infiltrators. They're both incompetent, annoying, and persistent.

Would be useful to know what post got them banned, but the content moderation is completely opaque.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#74
post #63

Honestly, I'd be happy to see all political groups - left or right - expunged from Facebook. Politics and social media clearly do not mix, as this year has demonstrated all too brutally well.

“In our age there is no such thing as ‘keeping out of politics.’ All issues are political issues….” ― George Orwell Yet I simultaneously agree with both you and George.

Shutting down all social media would be a pretty interesting experiment, wanna make a Facebook group to promote the idea? Oh, wait.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#75
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s always some external thing: “the algorithm”, as if that doesn’t just mean “the way we programmed it”. Computing systems are do not act on their own. That the system did this was because it was allowed to, or more accurately, told to.

Often these are machine learning models which are not explicitly programmed and do act on their own. It could easily be a model that takes in features such as "has an admin banned this page" or "has an overwhelming number of users reported this page" and then based on that it identifies problematic keywords that it uses to ban pages. And then it relies on humans to manually interject when the model fails as it someti…

> Often these are machine learning models which are not explicitly programmed and do act on their own.

That were programmed to make decision no one understands and to act on their own.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#76
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s always some external thing: “the algorithm”, as if that doesn’t just mean “the way we programmed it”. Computing systems are do not act on their own. That the system did this was because it was allowed to, or more accurately, told to.

Often these are machine learning models which are not explicitly programmed and do act on their own. It could easily be a model that takes in features such as "has an admin banned this page" or "has an overwhelming number of users reported this page" and then based on that it identifies problematic keywords that it uses to ban pages. And then it relies on humans to manually interject when the model fails as it someti…

Why not put the 1% largest pages up for manual review? I think it there is some merit to the idea that they are sometimes made overly broad to give cover for some actions by blaming them on the automated system and ignoring pleas for reinstation.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#77
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“In our age there is no such thing as ‘keeping out of politics.’ All issues are political issues….” ― George Orwell Yet I simultaneously agree with both you and George.

Shutting down all social media would be a pretty interesting experiment, wanna make a Facebook group to promote the idea? Oh, wait.

Wake up, Neo. Sudo wake up.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#78
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a stance. Maybe if you advocated for 'no politics on facebook', it would sound better. Social media has given voice to marginalized groups, and people seemingly fear that voice. It's something to take a look at, rather than sweep it under the rug with bans.

If by “marginalized” we mean “radicals”, then yes. If we mean “minorities”, then you’re probably just propagating the myths that minorities hold far-left-wing views. On the contrary, while minority views skew left-wing, only a minority of minorities hold far-left beliefs and there’s a lot more political diversity among minorities than there is between minority and majority groups. For example, “defund the police” is…

[deleted]

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#79
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook is a private platform: they're free to block any content they want, malicious or not.

One problem with moderating content in this way is that it makes it clearer and clearer that they no longer need the protections provided by section 230 of the Communications Decency Act. It's not injurious to them to moderate content, clearly, since they are doing it. By pulling this crap and especially by doing it algorithmically they are pushing the internet in a difficult direction.

The problem is that they want it both ways. They want to be able to silence those whom they find objectionable AND hide behind the legal protections of Sec 230 the rest of the time.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#80
It's a positive thing for these ejections to be across the political spectrum, because it makes the demand for distributed moderation come from across the political spectrum.

I hope that demand congeals on support for an open blogging protocol, such that people can very easily post once and direct it to multiple platforms or any listener. If this becomes popular enough, and posts aren't owned by a particular platform, the big platforms lose their power to control the conversation.

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