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DeLorean considering all-electric reboot

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Re: DeLorean considering all-electric reboot

#301

Post by zaroth »

itsoktocry wrote: post #285
zaroth wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your definition of “best of the best” needs updating. Show me where Toyota has casting machines anywhere near the scale of what Tesla is using in Model Y, or board design, or AI chips, or even things like buying experience. Fundamentally “best” can be reduced to margins because everything else shakes out in a competitive market. Tesla has the best margins, and they will bring that margin advantage down to the…

> Show me where Toyota has casting machines anywhere near the scale of what Tesla is using in Model Y, or board design, or AI chips, or even things like buying experience. Toyota has 10s of millions of happy customers, and has car after car after car on top 10 lists, every year. From everything I've read, the Tesla service experience is horrible. > Tesla has the lowest depreciation Source for this? Or do you believe…

I didn't say Toyota didn't have happy customers. Tesla's Model 3 received the top customer satisfaction score in each of the four age ranges in Consumer Reports survey of 420,000 drivers. [1]

A Tesla Model 3 after 3/5 years has a residual value of 77.47%/58.96%/45.35%(est), versus for example a BMW 3 Series after 3/5/7 years with a residual of 61.56%/41.71%/34.15%. [2, 3]

And the apt comparison for margins is gross margins not operating margins. Operating Margins will be higher for a stagnant company conversing cash versus a rapidly growing company. Gross margins show you how much they are earning per unit sale, regardless of how much of their profit they are re-investing in future growth.

Tesla automotive gross margins in Q3 were 27.7% versus Toyota gross margins of 18.1%. [4, 5]

[1] - https://www.thestreet.com/tesla/news/tesla-tops-consumer-rep...

[2, 3] - https://caredge.com/tesla/model-3/depreciation https://caredge.com/bmw/3-series/depreciation

[4, 5] - https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/static/4E7BR9_TSLA_Q3_2020_Updat... https://finbox.com/NYSE:TM/explorer/gp_margin

Re: DeLorean considering all-electric reboot

#303

Post by rcxdude »

blueblisters wrote: post #207
taitems wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of EV manufacturers are investigating the "skateboard" model where you drop a chassis on a unified battery platform. VW has invested monumental amounts in this but I imagine will keep it all locked down to the VAG family. Perhaps they're open to licensing opportunities. Canoo ($GOEV) on the other hand is in the news for their skateboard platform being adopted by Hyundai/Kia and potentially being the base of the…

What are the biggest cost centers and differentiators for EVs? I have heard that a big reason why traditional automobile manufacturers are behind is because they don't have the software foundation that Tesla does. I imagine the "skateboard" integrates software, electronics, batteries and motors in a single platform, but will that be enough to counter Tesla's competitive advantage, while being able to differentiate th…

Software isn't particularly important (at least the kind that Tesla's most visibly writing). The key is getting to low cost motor control electronics and batteries (along with accompanying electronics and safety systems). The battery especially is the current barrier to an affordable EV with the range of a typical IC car.

Re: DeLorean considering all-electric reboot

#304

Post by tracedddd »

ryandrake wrote: post #165
tracedddd wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how they look, everything about them from the doors to the instrument panel to the steel body. I honestly don’t like back to the future much, not more than any other movie, and it’s popularity from that has dissuaded me from buying one (not to mention the soaring prices due to the film.) Nor do I particularly care about the founder or his choices. For some, the design simply has a great appeal. An EV refresh w…

Modern car styling is about as exciting as a mud pie. Go to any parking lot and try to find a sedan built after 2000 that doesn’t look like the same boring bar of soap with wheels. Sure they may have different grilles or headlight clusters, but these days I can’t tell most models apart until I get clise enough to see the badge. I’d buy an electric delorian just for the unique style. I love the cybertruck’s look too,…

You’re absolutely correct, I hate how new cars look between the crumble zones, plasticky everything, and wind tunnel optimizations smoothing every stylistic choice out.

They do drive well, crash well, and have sweet fuel economy though. So for ICE it’s probably best. I’m happy to see EVs having design flexibility again.

Re: DeLorean considering all-electric reboot

#305

Post by nickik »

saberdancer wrote: post #217
Armisael16 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They could even do a stickshift EV if they wanted to, though most car companies seem to not think it's worth the complexity/maintenance, and I get the impression that electric motors are hard on transmissions. Electric motors have a wider power band, so there’s less need for gear shifting. They could get more efficiency with multiple gears, but it’s be a smaller benefit than in an ICE vehicle. One of the big early…

I'm not sure of the power curve for an electric vehicle, but if you add gearing, you introduce losses due to gearbox and you increase complexity. It's likely that it is not worth it in most applications. Only cars that used gearboxes in EV space (two speed) are usually intended to be able to hit 200mph so they need extremely wide rpm range from their electric motors. I know Rimac used one and Taycan (not surprising s…

Rimac already removed it form their vehicle unless I am very misinformed. The Tesla Roadster also doesn't have it. Basically almost non of the EV coming out have it.

I assume Prosche just had the expertise for and it made it easier for them to hit the top level speeds.

Re: DeLorean considering all-electric reboot

#306

Post by nickik »

elihu wrote: post #119
jandrese wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric motors don't need a transmission. Adding a stick shift is just adding complexity for no benefit. It's more stuff to maintain and more parts to break and is going to make the car slower due to parasitic losses and inefficiencies. If you're shooting for 200kph+ speeds there might be a time where a simple high/low transmission may be helpful, but that's supercar territory. Interestingly, Formula E cars have a 5…

> Electric motors don't need a transmission. Adding a stick shift is just adding complexity for no benefit. That isn't true. Having low gears gives you more torque with less current at slow speeds. Most EVs take the philosophy of "it's easier to just use a more powerful motor than deal with a transmission". But that doesn't mean that a transmission wouldn't be helpful (especially if you want good performance out of a…

This is a strange way to look at it. The assumption seems to be we want to keep the motor cheap but then connect it to a transmission and that is supposed to be cheaper then simply using a slightly better motor?

Pretty sure its isn't and that's why 99% of EV don't use them.

Re: DeLorean considering all-electric reboot

#307

Post by mikestew »

mywittyname wrote: post #123
core-questions wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've driven one, and honestly, it wasn't that fat/slow/heavy. It could have used more power, but it was fairly fun to drive. Not everything needs "five hunnert horsepower" to be interesting.

There's a lot of room between 130 (SAE NET) hp and "five hunnert horsepower" The DMC-12 is roughly as fast as a Prius. I can appreciate the complaints in that department. I wouldn't dare call 2900lbs fat though.

I wouldn't dare call 2900lbs fat though.

My 1982 Honda Accord weighed 2100lbs. Everything back then, before air bags, ABS, and other safety features, weighed considerably less. Honda CRX with a manual transmission weighed in at 1700lbs. So I stand by my statement, the DeLoren was chunky. :)

Re: DeLorean considering all-electric reboot

#308

Post by nickik »

postit wrote: post #36

There’s a huge opportunity for the manufacturer that could streamline an hypothetical chassis with integrated electronics and batteries. We could be looking for a future resembling what we have today in some formula categories that are basically a power unit paired with a dallara or lolla chassis.

Look at Tesla structural battery for this. Basically they will be using a honeycomb structure and stick the batteries directly into it, weld the connection on top and then put thin cover over and under it.

The front and back part of the car, Tesla creates them in a single peace casting, is directly connected to the battery.

The finished product:

https://i2.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/202...

With batteries:

https://www.thedrive.com/content-b/message-editor%2F16008149...

Here is the first leaked picture of what it will look like inside:

https://preview.redd.it/99vbj85b0jc61.png?width=664&format=p...

Re: DeLorean considering all-electric reboot

#309

Post by nickik »

dharmab wrote: post #80
grenoire wrote: post #78

> The DeLorean was memorably featured in the Back to the Future movie trilogy (1985, 1989, and 1990) as the model of car made into a time machine by eccentric scientist Doc Brown, although the company had closed down before the first movie was made. Woah! Can you imagine what the cars today would look like if they hadn't and became a huge hit following the movie's status!? Truly iconic.

The DeLorean story is insane. Mr. DeLorean tried to finance the company with literal briefcases of cocaine in hotel rooms. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_DeLorean#Arrest_and_trial https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCwKEnu5xSk

DeLorean was entrapped by the government.

Re: DeLorean considering all-electric reboot

#310

Post by JoeAltmaier »

nickik wrote: post #309
dharmab wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The DeLorean story is insane. Mr. DeLorean tried to finance the company with literal briefcases of cocaine in hotel rooms. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_DeLorean#Arrest_and_trial https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCwKEnu5xSk

DeLorean was entrapped by the government.

Apparently it wasn't hard.
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